ERA folks...please help / getting frustrated

[Kramer]

Yes, at the end of day..here is where I am at:

1) the engine (427SO) is centered and level in the car
2) the mounts are correctly installed.
...I also put a little square meeting piece of metal inside the pedalstal with a single hole to keep the engine from moving too much left to right (my own version of a torque strap.
3) the cutout hole in the passenger side is smaller than the drivers side.
...I can fit a finger in the top of the whole on the drivers side, but maybe just a finger tip (think like 1/4 inch clearance) on the passenger side.
4) after talking to Doug for a while at ERA, I have concluded that as I get close to finishing the car, I will use a bur and open up both holes (on the top side) by 1/2 inch to make more room). Then once I am completed finished, I will have folks at the body shop fix any little scratches from my building process and clean up the holes).

PS...the car is running now...and its sounds nasty (in a good way). Someone said it sounds like you violently woke up a giant and they are right. I will fire it again after I get some work done to to the interior and will youtube it. Can't wait until next summer!!!

[imagine2frolic]

Sorry to hear you have to work on the body, but at least you now have a solution you can live with. Summer will be here soon. Best wishes on your progress............

[ERA Chas]

"The back mounts however were off about 1inch on the drivers side and 2-3 inches on the passenger side. (when I say off, I mean away from the body)."
OK, so how did you solve this?

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Originally Posted by Kramer

Yes, at the end of day..here is where I am at:

1) the engine (427SO) is centered and level in the car
2) the mounts are correctly installed.
...I also put a little square meeting piece of metal inside the pedalstal with a single hole to keep the engine from moving too much left to right (my own version of a torque strap.
3) the cutout hole in the passenger side is smaller than the drivers side.
...I can fit a finger in the top of the whole on the drivers side, but maybe just a finger tip (think like 1/4 inch clearance) on the passenger side.
4) after talking to Doug for a while at ERA, I have concluded that as I get close to finishing the car, I will use a bur and open up both holes (on the top side) by 1/2 inch to make more room). Then once I am completed finished, I will have folks at the body shop fix any little scratches from my building process and clean up the holes).

PS...the car is running now...and its sounds nasty (in a good way). Someone said it sounds like you violently woke up a giant and they are right. I will fire it again after I get some work done to to the interior and will youtube it. Can't wait until next summer!!!

Glad to hear you've got that baby running...I would've had mine running this weekend except for a brake line leak and some very cold weather keepin' me out of the garage. If it warms up around here, I'll be have it running this weekend. I too have very little clearance between the pass. side sidepipes and the body and will probably have to open up the hole a little. Good luck.

[Kramer]

ERA chas- the comment that you are referencing is in regards to where the side pipe brackets line up with the frame back near the rear tires. To fix this, I loosen everything up and got them both withing about an inch of the straps on both sides. Then tighten everything up and push them in while someone else slide the bolts through.

[ERA Chas]

From post # 20:
I used ALOT of persuasion to get them to mount up in the back."DON'T "RUN LIKE THIS. If they're under tension they will snap something at 100MPH and you've got a problem. Ask how I know. Get everything to align and slip-fit bolts in their holes without tension".
I know because my left side pipe snapped the hanger bracket in an 80 mph righthander. It rode next to me until I straightened. If it went under the left rear, I wouldn't be pressing you now.
Make your own fix if you don't like mine but don't run under tension like that.
A well-meaning ERA friend.

[Kramer]

Hey Chas,

I am going to pull the pipes once I get the interior and some extra's little issues completed - then have the body holes made a little larger. At that point in time, I will work to get all the tension out of the pipes.

When you went down this road, how to get you get all the tension out. Did you trim the primaries? I understand your point and it is well taken, I am just wondering how you did this? The only way I can think to make this work is to order a fresh set up pipes in bare steel with no welded tabs and start fresh from there???

[ERA Chas]

Very glad you will revisit the issue.
"If you mean they won't align closer or further to the body in a horizontal plane, the fix is to remove the individual head pipes and shorten them a carefully measured amount to bring the entire pipe closer to the body at the tip. This worked wonders on mine and gave the pipes a neat, tucked look to the body. It's all best judgement and trial and error. Work slowly, little at a time. It's worth it"
This is much easier if you can beg/borrow a spare cylinder head, mount it on your bench then mount the header pipes and side pipes, just like in the car. You'll see the tips moved out from your bench and be able to measure and see what you need to trim.
Trimming the rearmost head pipes first is where to start. Work slowly and recheck constantly.
It really works.

[Chaplin]

Kramer-
Did you get the spacing between the body and sidepipes sorted out yet? If not, I have an idea that might help you out. I have been meaning to post this but figured I'd wait until we got back onto the regular server to add it to this thread.

Last month I installed a new motor in my car. With the old motor, the pipes were close to hitting the body cutouts, but the gap was big enough that the pipes would not hit except under hard acceleration, and then they would only rub very slightly.

When I put the new motor in, I had the same problem you did. The pipes were very close to the body cutouts- much closer than they were before with the old motor- and this was with using the same motor mounts, side pipes, etc., from the old motor. In fact, the pipes were so close to the body that I could just barely slide the open end of a 7/16 box wrench between the body and the pipes.

I double checked everything and it all looked good. The motor looked to be in the mounts straight and level, the mounts were in correctly, etc., but it was still real close. I could not think of any reason why the new motor should not have sat in the same position as the old motor (especially since I was reusing all of the old parts) but it was definetely sitting differently.

After scrathing my head for a while, I decided that notwithstanding that it looked like the motor was in all the way, straight and level, it must have been off a bit. So, I loosened the motor mount nuts and trans mount bolts (backed them off until they were just hanging on by a couple threads), put a jack under the bell housing, jacked the whole engine and trans up an inch or two and dropped the jack quickly to let the motor come down quickly into the frame mounts- I did this 3 or 4 times.

After doing that a few times, I wound up with much more room between the body and sidepipes. Now there is probably between 3/4" and 1" of clearance on the driver's side and even more on the passenger side, which is even more than I had before with the old motor.

The only thing I can think is that the motor must not have settled all the way down into the mounts the first time when I gently laid it in there with the engine hoist. If you haven't tried this yet, it might be worth an attempt before having the body cutouts opened up. Let me know how it goes.

[Kramer]

ERA Chas or Chaplin -

Can either of you PM with your number...I'd be much obliged to talk to you real time. I need to understand what it means to trim the pipes b/c I really don't know how that changes anything if the tabs are all welded in and the sidepipes slide of the primaries.

Chaplin...I am liking your line of thinking...I may try that this weekend.

b/c I didn't what else to do, I called ERA and got the number of the folks that make the primaries for them and they are sending me a pipe (based on my measurements) to test fit...if it works they will make me a custom set of header pipes for the passenger side. I should have the test pipe in a few days.

Sammy...et al, I know this is petty, but how do I get that those paint marks off my side pipes...I heard laquer thinner may work...anyone tried to remove paint of of the coated pipes?

Kramer

[SSSammy]

Kramer, we put the new motor in two weeks ago, got the tranny in last weekend on Sat and the side pipes on Monday. Surprisingly, the narrow gaps where the side pipes go through the body are now normal on the driver's side and have opened up at least an inch on the passenger side. When the motor was built, we reused my EBrock heads (with much rework), but the block is different. Same motor mounts and pipes. When we set the engine in, I did inadvertently drop it the last inch or so with the hoist. So it probably set down kinda hard like Chaplin's. The passenger side pipes are now too close to the *bottom* of the cutout. I'm thinking about how I undo this Maybe I loosen the nut on the passenger side mount and jack the engine up, then re-tighten the nut. Or shim it .. I'm not gonna take the motor out again .. it's ready to start! Planning on that Saturday.

I'd take a little dab of lacquer thinner to the paint marks on the ceramic pipes. But be very gentle. If you have not run those pipes at all, then the ceramic is not cured and is still relatively soft, according to my local coater. I just had mine re-done in satin like yours since that is what I had asked for in the first place and they came in flat black instead. Looked really butch, but they got grey after a few hundred miles.

Sam

[SSSammy]

Kramer,
Put the car up on stands. Make sure they're secure .. you're gonna get under the car

Loosen the two 1/2" nuts on the motor mount studs and the tranny mount nuts as much as possible without removing them.

Lying on your back .. head under the bellhousing and feet toward the radiator .. grab a side pipe in each hand and wiggle the engine till you get the pipes as centered as you want. Use the tips of your fingers as gauges between pipes and body. If you have sufficient clearance all around, tighten everything up and go for a beer

If, like me, the whole mess is still sitting too low in the body cut outs, then fabricate some shims. I used what I had handy, some .090" Alum plate. Made 2.5" x 2.5" squares, drilled 1/2" hole in the center and cut the hole into a slot with a jig saw. I did 4 of them at once, cutting them off the sheet only after all the slots were done. Put a floor jack under the bellhousing and jack the engine up 1/4" so you can slide the shims between the motor mount and the engine perch. I used two per side, for a total lift of .180". Slide them over the mount stud from the top, then lower the jack verrrry gently so they don't move or fall off. Then tighten nuts as tight as you can using various techniques because the damn things are so hard to get a wrench on because they are hidden up in the engine perch and you can only turn them 1/12 revolution at a time Result: both pipes prety much centered, minimum clearance to body about 1/2". Go for two fingers of single malt scotch

Let me know how it goes .. going for more scotch

Sam

[decooney]

Originally Posted by Kramer

in the last picture you can see on the top of the passenger side pipe where is was rubbing on the body when I first fired it up.

That's how mine was, exactly. I made some metal plates in place of the washers for the motor mount bolts, put a level on the air cleaner, and got the motor rotated so both sets of pipes are even in the cutout holes. Your's appears to be the same issue.

[Kramer]

For those or you that help me out here, I just wanted to comment to close out the thread. The short story is I had customer header pipes made that were simply bent to come down about a 1/4 inch lower than the originals. I then mocked them up myself, welded the tabs and had them coated. If you recall, I also mounted some metal plates inside the engine mount perchs so that the engine could not move once it settled in place. Now the car is perfect. Only thing left now is to get the seats in and I am working to fabricate a bracket up for the ken miles racing seat..should be finally on the road in a few weeks....next stop - getting the car registered.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npQmORyzssE

Kramer