ERA folks...please help / getting frustrated

[imagine2frolic]

Once again.....how about a simple shim on one side?

[Kramer]

fyi....I am still working on this issue b/c after getting everything level and square, it seems the larger issue is that both side pipes are coming through the body holes way too high. I was hoping here was an easier solution in that I could just drop the motor but I am beginning to think that is impossible. If I can do anything else, I will go back to ERA, get all new pipes (uncoated and without tabs welded in) and start the pipe installation all over.

[Chaplin]

Kramer-
This is a long shot, but is there any chance you have the primary pipes installed on the wrong side of the engine? If you are not aware, the numbers that are stamped onto the flanges of the primary pipes are wrong- they are exactly opposite, i.e., what is stamped 5 is actually for #1, 6 is 2, 7 is 3 and 8 is actually for #4.

[SSSammy]

Imagine2frolic, I can't picture what you are suggesting. If we shim the right motor mount, it will raise the passenger side, oppposite of what we want. What would be needed is a motor mount that is thinner, or a lower engine perch, or as cobrajeff did, enlarge the cutout.

Chaplin, I'm sure he has them on the correct side, the primaries are dramatically different in length from left to right. You couldn't get them to mate the side pipes at all if they were swapped.

Kramer, I don't hold much hope that new pipes will cure this .. unless you are going to have the primaries custom bent Now that might be worth checking into with a local exhaust shop.

I still think I'm gonna put a limiting bolt throught that right mount, mirror image of the left one. Just waiting for my motor to get back from Keith so I can do a trial fit.

Sam

[Chaplin]

Originally Posted by SSSammy

Chaplin, I'm sure he has them on the correct side, the primaries are dramatically different in length from left to right. You couldn't get them to mate the side pipes at all if they were swapped.

Sam

I know, that is why I said it was a long shot, but it is worth checking to make sure that all the primaries are running to the correct cylinders nonetheless.

I still believe that there is something very basic and fundamentally wrong. After doing 700+ cars and sets of sidepipes, I can't believe that ERA's jig or body molds would be that far off for Kramer's car, but no one else would have the same problem.

[Kramer]

Thanks Chaplin,

I will check the pipes, but they are installed per the manual....either way, I will check it one last time. I agree with Sam in that the only real option is to lower the engine but I don't know how thats possible. I called "prothane" in hopes of them having slightly similar motormounts, and they are checking, but I don't have my hopes up to high.

When I talked to ERA, I didn't get a lot of insight. I am going to check the holes against the planned measurements to see if the painter (who did all the body prep) somehow put the holes to low. Even if thats the case, I don't know what else I can do. I suspect my only option at this point is to get the motor lower in the saddle or completely reinstall the pipes with some special "customization".

[Chaplin]

Kramer-
Your body guy made the cutout holes in the body? Did you use someone other than ERA's usual painters- Tony or Connecticut Custom?

[Kramer]

I used Walt at Connecticut custom. I was of the assumption that ERA does not actually cut the holes out so I assumed the folks at CCC did that. Basically I got the car in as a a painted "roller" with all the goodies either completed at ERA are sent to me ready to bolt up. (i.e. the pipes were already coated with all the tabs welded in). so my thought it all I had to do was bolt everything together.

FYI..the block was a NOS SO so nothing out of ordinary there. I got the mounts from ERA as well.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

ERA does the cutouts before it goes to the paint shop. I just installed my own sidepipes last week and the passenger side hole also seems very close to the pipes. I had to center the engine previously by loosening the motor mount bolts and moving it a little, but I will have to fire it up before passing final judgement. If I find one hole is too close to the pipes, I'll just open the cutout a little more with a saw...can't do much else.

[Kramer]

Now I am really confused!!...If ERA handled the cutouts and I have a standard 427 in the bay with all the installation hardware (mounts,etc) coming from ERA, the pipes with welded tabs etc coming from ERA, how does this not perfectly line up????

I can't get back to the car until later this week...but when I do I will recheck everything...at this point, the only thing I will check will be the primaries but I really don't know how you can install them incorrectly.

UGH!!!!!

[Kramer]

Bob...if you're reading, could use some help here?

[CHANMADD]

Firstly, You have to remember that from wherever you purchased your car these are "handmade" and therefore some allowance for tolerance discrepancies are required. I have completed many cars for guys who purchased "KITS" and found out that these kits are not just assembly but really taking on the Custom building of an awesome car!

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Originally Posted by Kramer

Now I am really confused!!...If ERA handled the cutouts and I have a standard 427 in the bay with all the installation hardware (mounts,etc) coming from ERA, the pipes with welded tabs etc coming from ERA, how does this not perfectly line up????

I can't get back to the car until later this week...but when I do I will recheck everything...at this point, the only thing I will check will be the primaries but I really don't know how you can install them incorrectly.

UGH!!!!!

Kramer, these cutouts are all the same, being done in the fab shop. My pipes also have the tabs welded in place. Maybe those ultra-thick header gaskets that I did NOT use made some difference. Either way, my build has been going on for a little over two years now and I'm almost finished (not too much spare time available in my week). Remember, this IS a hand-built car and there are many little things that don't line up perfectly every time and need tweaking. I also just had some problems with the front brake lines leaking at the (GM) calipers. Looks like the shoulder on the line prevented the banjo fitting from sealing properly. I'm changing over to braided lines. And my driveshaft hoop doesn't line up because I'm using a Galaxie toploader with a long tailshaft. Just some things I have had to overcome to end up with a totally awesome Cobra. Keep the faith, you'll do just fine.
And you cannot install the primaries wrong. The engine is offset to the right (pass. side) which makes that side shorter.

[imagine2frolic]

The deal with the shim is to raise the lower side which will in effect lower the higher side. A washer thickness will not be noticable as the engine stands in the compartment, but as you add length to the pipes it will change significantly at the cutouts. Simple task to just add one shim and take a look?

[cobred]

Kramer, I checked my car. I can get 1 finger but not 2 between the pipes and the cut out on either side. Dont forget the right side will go down with the engine torque in foward gears. I remember grinding the lower part of the cutout on my right side when I first finished it. I used a sanding drum from sears for wood working mounted in a drill and a little touch up paint.

[CJ428CJ]

Make sure you're using the right hand motor mount on the right side and the left hand mount on the left side. If you have them on the wrong sides, it can affect how the motor sits in the car (but I think it affects how the motor sits from front to back - I don't know if it will affect the height of the motor in the engine compartment).

Chris

[Kramer]

Thanks for the advice guys. I will double check my mounts later this week, but I think they are positioned correctly and on the proper sides.

I agree with the fact that the passenger side will go down over time, but the issue is that both pipes are high if not right up against the tip of the hole....so if one goes down...the other hits the body.

Thanks again for the advice. I understand this is a handbuilt automobile...guess I was hoping this would go a bit smoother as I am getting excited once I got to hear the engine fire

[Rick 427 Cobra]

As Chris and I have said, check the motor mounts. They can easily be installed incorrectly. They will bolt to the engine and frame, look "good" but be wrong! I've done it.
And don't just look, compare on other cars.
ERA builds a quality product. All this monkey motion about chaining, bolting, slotting, shimming, etc is bad. This sounds like the most common problem of all, builder error. We have all done it, be honest.
As far as the mounts "settling", gimme a break. Those mounts will go a 100k.
Hopefully Bob will chip in soon.

[strictlypersonl]

The engine mounts can be interchanged, but the fit will be awkward. There is about a 4 degree tilt from the engine mounting holes and the stud face so the mount won't fit well on the chassis stand. Worth a look-see anyway.

[imagine2frolic]

Kramer,

Have you had the chance to determine the problem? Hopefully it was a simple one, and resolved by now!