ERA 753 - Final Assembly in Progress

[tboneheller]

If I had 740 horsepower, I would have drive a lot faster than 22 miles per hour!!!

[fkemmerer]

Well, first I did a more careful mileage run and I find I am getting more like 14 MPG. Still pretty good for a 482 ci engine. The mileage is largely due to the combination of the overdrive transmission (My 5th gear is a .64 overdrive) and the EFI system on the car.

I really love driving this car! It handles great, looks great and really performs when you get into the throttle. With the Goodyear billboards, it also does pretty well in the turns . As Ron knows, I am a big EFI fan and would probably not build another carburated performance engine for the street at this point. While EFI results in more up front cost and work to install, it really is great to be able to jump in the car and just drive it without any finicky behaviors. The other advantage of EFI is that it allows more radical induction and camshaft combinations to be used with good drivablity on the street. The following pics are of the induction systems on my two EFI street motors:

482 ci Injected Ford FE

383 ci Blown and Injected SBC

I've started these motors in cold weather (as low at 0 degrees with the blown and injected car) and they start right up and idle perfectly. The drivability on both motors is excellent (although they do take a very LIGHT touch on the throttle to cruise due to the large amount of throttle blade area). BTW, both of these motors make over 600 hp and 600 ft-lbs of torque on 93 octane pump gas.

I doubt that either of these motors would be as streetable as they are without the associated EFI systems.

As far as tuning goes, I personally find EFI system much easier to tune then carbs. With an EFI system, a tuner can make very localized changes in the fuel and timing curves of a motor without having an effect anywhere else in the engine's operation. This is a big advantage over a carb where changes effect large areas of the fuel delivery and timing curves. In the later situation, solving a problem at one point in an engine's operating range can often cause problems in other areas or a power or drivability loss overall. I recently took an advanced EFI tuning course where we spent a full day optimizing the performance of a car on a dyno. Based upon this experience, I can definitively say that an EFI equipped car when optimally tuned using a load bearing dyno, will outperform a carb equipped car in at least some areas of the engine operating range. The reason for this is that the combination of a carb and a manual/vacumn advance distributor can at best provide a compromise in terms of optimal fuel and timing delivery for a given engine. As an example, it is not uncommon for a motor to want a different timing advance setting than a standard distrbutor can delivery with its relatively fix mechanical and vacumn advance curves. For example, a combination of a somewhat restrictive exhaust system and a high overlap camshaft might result in a great deal of reversion at a specific RPM and load range. In an EFI system, it is very simple to give the same motor the exact amount of extra timing and fuel that it wants to address what would otherwise be a drivability issue in a situation like this at only the required combination of engine load and RPM. Fixing this sort of a problem with a carb would likely result in an overly rich mixture in a large are of the engine's operating range and it may be impossible to add the optimal amount of ignition timing without causing the engine to detonate just above the range where the reversion problem ceases. The more radical the combination of camshaft and induction becomes, the more likely the these "fine point" optimizations are going to be important for good drivability somewhere in a egine's operating range.

Modern engine management systems also allow for some capabilities that would be very hard to duplicate without them. For example, our cobra has an electronic traction control system which is part of the engine managment system. This setup uses a driveshaft speed sensor which detects when the rear wheels are spinning and reduces the ignition advance and therefore the torque output of the motor. The result is that I cannot spin the rear tires on a hard start unless I really try. These sorts of capabilities make the car more fun to drive. Another example would be that the EFI setup on our cobra has a total of 4 seperate tunes which can be selected with a switch. This allows me to have a tune that would be optimized for a different grade of fuel (say race gas where more ignition timing would be needed) and either tune can be selected with a flip of a switch.

Then there is the on-board data recording capabilities that come with most EFI systems. It great to know that I got to 100 MPH while pulling .7-1.5g's in a certain amount of time and be able to see how quick my shifts were and what my instaneous MPG readings were in the process (well maybe the MPG in these situations is somewhat depressing ....).

Some folks suggest that only an engineer (I am an EE) could make a modern EFI system work really well. I would say that installing a good EFI setup is certainly no more difficult that building the cobra's that many of us on this forum have done. The technology is new but can easily be learned with a little reading and investment in time. There are also more and more qualified performance EFI tuners every day so one does not need to be an expert to get a EFI equipped car properly tuned and running great. The really nice part about the tune is that it will need to be done only once in the life of the car/motor unless something significant is changed so this step can be outsourced to an expert. The other factor is the higher initial cost of an EFI system. I personally think this issue is somewhat overblown because many folks who build an EFI equipped car are doing so to run a radical (and fundamentally more expensive) induction system than a carb. I think if one compares a basic EFI system with a carb like intake and throttle body to a comperable carb induction setup, the premium paid for the EFI setup becomes much smaller. If you add the time and expense to keep the carb running at peak performance over the life of the combination, I would suggest that the cost difference become next to nothing.

As engines become more sophisticated, it is only a matter of time before modern engine management systems become essential to extracting peak performance. A good example of this is the recent application of Variable Valve Timming (VVT) technology to performance engines. VVT is a system that varies cam timing, overlap, and or valve lift under computer control. Many modern (post 2000) automotive engines are using some form of this technology to increase power output, mileage, and emissions performance. I recently saw test results from an application of this technology to a performance motor and gains in the range of 10% torque and HP at some points in the engine's operating range were achieved with VVT under the control of an aftermarket EFI system. The bigest advantage of VVT in performance applications is that it creates a broader, flatter torque curve. Also note that the 2008-2009 Viper V-10 engine uses a VVT system and an EFI management computer which together with a power adder can make over 700 hp (the "stock" V-10 with VVT makes 560 ft-lbs and 600 hp).

Sorry for the long article on the merits of EFI but I believe that this choice has alot to do with the "fun factor" of owning and driving our cobra. The last thing to mention is that an EFI system can be installed on a classic car in a way that maintains the original retro look of the vehicle in question. In both of the pics above, the EFI elements have been well hidden and the cars look pretty close to period correct when compared to the far less drivable mechanical induction systems equivalents that would have been used in the day.


- Fred

[fkemmerer]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I think that really sucks. He's got almost 300 more horsepower than I do and barely get 10 miiles to the gallon. In fact, I usually don't.

Patrick,

You might consider EFI. Some really cool weber look-alike EFI systems on the market now. If these had been available when I started my project, would have definitely used one. Check out the following link:

http://www.dynamicmotorsports.net/Dynaformance.htm

- Fred

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by fkemmerer

Patrick,

You might consider EFI. Some really cool weber look-alike EFI systems on the market now. If these had been available when I started my project, would have definitely used one. Check out the following link:

http://www.dynamicmotorsports.net/Dynaformance.htm

- Fred

Fred, frankly your car is simply in a class above mine. The Weber looking EFI stuff is indeed cool though.

[fkemmerer]

We've been enjoying ERA 753 all summer. The car is running great. I do have a problem that I need to solve and I'd like to get some ideas from others on this forum. Now that the weather in New England has cooled down, my oil temperatures are running too low (50 - 60 degrees C typically). I ordered a Canton thermostat that I plan to put on the car in the next week or two. Only problem is the size of the unit. I don't want to put it anywhere obvious as I'm concerned it will spoil the "original look" of the engine bay. Has anyone found a place to put the Canton Theromstat somewhere out of site on an ERA?

- Fred

[fastd]

Please keep us posted as the progress and functionality of the canton thermostat - how well is works when you finally get it in...thanks.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by fkemmerer

We've been enjoying ERA 753 all summer. The car is running great. I do have a problem that I need to solve and I'd like to get some ideas from others on this forum. Now that the weather in New England has cooled down, my oil temperatures are running too low (50 - 60 degrees C typically). I ordered a Canton thermostat that I plan to put on the car in the next week or two. Only problem is the size of the unit. I don't want to put it anywhere obvious as I'm concerned it will spoil the "original look" of the engine bay. Has anyone found a place to put the Canton Theromstat somewhere out of site on an ERA? - Fred

Fred,
Here is my best advice for the too-cold oil problem. Send back the Canton thermostat and simply disconnect your cooler lines, plug them, then plug the in and out at the filter. Zip tie the lines out of sight somewhere on the chassis. I'm sure you don't want to hear this.

I've tried every trick and thermostat in the book over many years. The truth of the matter is that none will even arrive at, much less hold, 160+ oil temps below about 55 deg ambient. Even with the cooler face blocked with all sorts of tapes, lucite, aluminum, cardboard, rubber or concrete, the lines and cooler act as a giant heat sink and bleed off temp at highway speeds. Can't get to or hold 140 deg. There are a thousand threads on here of how guys covered the cooler with all the above and it's just fine. Well, that's just not my experience. I'm in the frigid NE as you are.

The only sure effective way to avoid heat loss is to not drive the car in cool/cold temps. Aside from the oil not reaching safe operating temps (especially when using elevated RPM) other negative factors arise-such as rock hard tires (unsafe) and rock hard shocks (not a fun ride).

This was proven on my bud's 600HP, 11.5:1, Windsor FIA which we tested. We found that just running the oil in the pan only (Canton RR), without cooler, that the pan's surface area prevented oil from reaching safe temps. Only at slow speed and stop/go driving did it rise above 160+. This was in 40 deg ambient.

I have a Mocal thermostat in place for 5 years now which does nothing to hold temps at highway speeds in cool/cold weather. Had the Earls from ERA and considered the Canton. The cooler is excellent in hot weather at maintaining 180-225 deg oil temps. You have an expensive engine and I would not run it (and mine) at low oil temps.

I marvel at the guys that have tops, heaters, (which bleed coolant temps!) seat warmers and horse blankets but ignore the oil temp sitting on the peg while they're driving to dinner parties in January.

Worse is autocrossing in October. You sit in the staging lanes for an hour at a time, start the engine, then you're screaming on the rev limiter in 2nd and 3rd for 40 seconds, then shut down.

JacMac on here has a neat piece he fabricates for his racecars. It's a lower rad hose which has an aluminum canister inserted through which hot coolant and oil pass through tube-in-tube. A heat exchanger. He reports it's excellent at maintaining good race oil temps but the warm coolant does not elevate the oil temps from cold.
GM has a similar oil filter-mounted exchanger on I think, C5's.

Just my experience and I hope it helps you decide.

[patrickt]

I agree with Chas. and I think he's right. Redbarchetta had a nice thread about mounting the thermostat about two and half years ago. I can't find any pictures of it now but I remember thinking what a nice job he did. In fact, I remember thinking that if I ever drove my car when it was below mid-50s I might do the same.

[RedBarchetta]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I agree with Chas. and I think he's right. Redbarchetta had a nice thread about mounting the thermostat about two and half years ago. I can't find any pictures of it now but I remember thinking what a nice job he did. In fact, I remember thinking that if I ever drove my car when it was below mid-50s I might do the same.

Thanks for the kind words, Patrick. Pics are in my gallery. Not sure if Fred would mount his the same way, as it sounds like he wants a more stealthy look. I mounted mine where I thought it made the most sense, that is all.

Fred, you have told us how great the EFI is. What about the active suspension controls that you installed?

Regards,

-Dean

[fkemmerer]

Thanks everyone for the advise on the oil thermostat/teperature. I think what I will do next is make a cardboard block for the oil cooler and drive the car in cool weather with it for a day. This should give me an idea on whether the oil thermostat will be effective or not. I will let everyone know what I find.

Dean, I have not yet had a chance to really play with the electronnic traction controls on my car. I want to get all of the little problems relative to the egine (like oil temperature) straighten out, then do a full dyno tune to get the engine at peak performance, then I will calibrate the ETC. I am not having alot of problems with rear wheel spin (I am running the Goodyear gumballs which stick pretty good and my cam is radical enough to limit the low end torque somewhat). I will post the results of all of this as I work my way through it.

- Fred

[Bobcat]

Fred ... my car is ERA 757 , .... I blocked off the oil cooler this summer and ran oil temps in the 140 to 180 degree range when just cruising . If I get on it , they will go to the 200 degree range .... and our ambients down here in summer are in the mid 90 to upper 90 degree range . Since we haven`t seen any cooler weather yet ( still in the upper 80`s ) , I don`t know what the oil temperature will do in cold ( for us ) weather. Our typical winters are lows in the low 30`s and highs in the mid 40`s . I made a cardboard template and then cut a piece of 1/8" Lexan out for the shield so the oil cooler could still be seen . I followed Doug`s advice and put a small piece of tape on the oil temp. gauge to remind me the cooler was blocked .

Bob

[jeffy]

FYI and FWIW, I discussed this topic with Peter P. yesterday and decided to do nothing, in part because I don't plan to drive when it is below 60* or so.

[fkemmerer]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

Fred ... my car is ERA 757 , .... I blocked off the oil cooler this summer and ran oil temps in the 140 to 180 degree range when just cruising . If I get on it , they will go to the 200 degree range .... and our ambients down here in summer are in the mid 90 to upper 90 degree range . Since we haven`t seen any cooler weather yet ( still in the upper 80`s ) , I don`t know what the oil temperature will do in cold ( for us ) weather. Our typical winters are lows in the low 30`s and highs in the mid 40`s . I made a cardboard template and then cut a piece of 1/8" Lexan out for the shield so the oil cooler could still be seen . I followed Doug`s advice and put a small piece of tape on the oil temp. gauge to remind me the cooler was blocked .

Bob

Thanks for the suggestion Bob. I like your approach and will see how things work out when I block the oil cooler inlet and drive the car.

- Fred

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by jeffy

I ... decided to do nothing, in part because I don't plan to drive when it is below 60* or so.

Ah, a man after my own heart.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Bobcat

Fred ... my car is ERA 757 , .... I blocked off the oil cooler this summer and ran oil temps in the 140 to 180 degree range when just cruising . If I get on it , they will go to the 200 degree range .... and our ambients down here in summer are in the mid 90 to upper 90 degree range . Bob

Bob,
That's a reinforcement of what I described with my testing. If highway speed in 90 ambient only permitted 140-180 with it blocked, you can expect 50 deg lower when the ambient is 50 lower. Keeping the oil in the engine only, is the only help you'll get when it's 40 outside-and not much at that. Remember, there's a quart and a half in the cooler and lines of an ERA, plus the bottom surface area of a Canton pan-all are a heat sink which is exposed to 70 to 100+ MPH, 40 deg wind.

Coolers are excellent on the race track and worthless any other time. They are a defining component for the S/C look which we all love, so many of us tolerate their bad points.

200 deg oil is a wonderful thing for power and longevity but you'll never see that in winter, even with a fur coat on the cooler.

[fkemmerer]

I am also considering running a lighter wt. oil in the cooler weather in the fall. I am using 15w50 racing oil in the summer and I'm thinking of dropping back to 10w30 or something along those lines in the cool weather.

- Fred

[Bobcat]

Chas ... no argument at all ... in fact , that is what a friend of mine who used to be a NASCAR engine builder told me . 200 degree oil makes power and longevity . Since I haven`t driven my car in a deep South winter yet , I`m planning on waiting to see what the oil temps are then . If I run into what you did , I`ll probably end up doing exactly what you did .... however , I`m hoping our winters are mild enough to not have to do that .
When I have the time , I may run through some hp/heat rejection calculations on the reservoir ( oil sump ) , cooler and lines just for giggles . I used to do that on the hydraulic systems I worked on ( a pain to do ) .... and you are correct , we used the reservoirs to help get rid of system heat . But we found that the line losses were negligible unless they were in the 25 foot or more range .
BTW , we used 180 to 190 degrees as a goal to shoot for on mobile equipment .... but it didn`t run 70 to 100 mph !!!

Bob

[ERA Chas]

That's 100 PLUS MPH-doesn't every ERA run that way??

Really cool you can calculate that stuff-please post as it's interesting to see paper results and compare to real-world.

Yes the lines on an ERA aren't more than about 9-10' but together with cooler and pan plus ambient and speed you get chilly oil.

Fred's also on the right track with 10w-30 oil but after his testing, I hope he'll conclude it's just best not to drive when you need a parka on.

I just wanted to save him money and a round-in-circles project. He's already built the space shuttle of ERAs.

[fkemmerer]

Well first thing I did today was to put 10w30 oil in the car. The temperature here in NH is 52 degrees F right now. Running the car on the hiway at 65 mph with the cooler open resulted in oil temps around 50 degrees C (122 degrees F) - way too cool. I did the simple trick of making a block for the cooler from cardboard and duct tape and the oil temp is now running at 60 degrees C (140 degrees F) - better but still pretty cool. My motor is an all aluminum 482 ci BBF (not painted) and I have a canton pan (also not painted) so I am probably a worst case in terms of disipating heat from the oil via the block, heads, and pan. I am thinking that I will put the oil termostat on the car over the winter as my oil temps are on the low side even in the middle of summer up here. THANKS TO EVERYONE FOR ALL OF THE GREAT SUGGESTIONS!

- Fred

[patrickt]

Fred, if you, say, wrapped your oil cooler in some pink insulation and aluminum foil over that, and took it out for a good ride and only gain 10 degrees, how would a thermostat do any better?