ERA 753 - Final Assembly in Progress

[ERA Chas]

You've duplicated my findings exactly in 52 ambient weather.
Pat's question is very valid.

To avoid the 'dead horse' syndrome, I wish you best luck in your testing Fred. I know that engineers never take 'no' for an answer-my kid is one.

I just wanted to save you a few bucks on another item for shelf dwelling. (I have several-ahem)

[fkemmerer]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Fred, if you, say, wrapped your oil cooler in some pink insulation and aluminum foil over that, and took it out for a good ride and only gain 10 degrees, how would a thermostat do any better?

Well, the cover I made only blocks the front of the cooler, not the top, bottom and sides. I figure that I am loosing some heat on all of those surfaces as well on the lines that lead to and from the cooler. I figure that the thermostat might be worth another 5 - 10 degress in cool weather.

The real reason that I am doing this is that my oil temps don't get above 70 degrees C (approx. 160 degress F) even in warm weather. Rather that hastle with removing the cardboard block when it does get really hot or I run the car hard, I think its best to just install the thermostat.

I looked at my car on the lift yesterday and it looks like I can install the thermostat down low between the radiator and the chassis cross braces in the front if I make a custom bracked to allow the lines to clear the lower radiator hose. This should be a good spot in terms of "hiding" it and this location should keep the lines short.

BTW, the sensor for my oil temp gauge is installed in the front of my canton pan. I wonder how much of the temperature drop when the car is moving is really the oil temp vs. the fact that the sensor is in the stream of cool undercar air. Does anyone have any thoughts on this one?

- Fred

[fkemmerer]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

You've duplicated my findings exactly in 52 ambient weather.
Pat's question is very valid.

To avoid the 'dead horse' syndrome, I wish you best luck in your testing Fred. I know that engineers never take 'no' for an answer-my kid is one.

I just wanted to save you a few bucks on another item for shelf dwelling. (I have several-ahem)

Thanks, I do appreciate that. You are right about the engineer part . Since I already have the cooler, its a little easier to justify the work to put it on as long as I can find a spot where it does not effect the appearance of the car. Thanks again for the help. Thanks to your and others help, I have a much better expectation on what can (and can't) be accomplished with these changes.


- Fred

[fastd]

Doesn't running 0W-30 synthetic oil go a long way towards resolving the "not so hot oil" problems? Anthony has a great post some time ago regarding oil weights.

Are there any technical types out there that can "weigh" in here about this topic; specifically, a 0W-XX oil will substantially address many of the concerns people have about lubrication at lower than optimal temperatures. New question: do synthetic oils hold water like mineral oils, i.e. if synthetic oils don't get up to 185+F, do they gunk up like mineral oils?

[RICK LAKE]

fkemmerer Fred my motor like yours is all aluminum and we both run a FI system in our cars. I have the opposite problem of running too hot. I modifiled a 180 thermostat from a dodge bb to keep my temps in the 190's to 210 range after being on the track. Oil temps are in the 220f. I run the rotella 15-40 with lucas oil suppliment. I do have the twin fans in the nose instaed of the splitter. They look good but do little to move the air.
Have you thought about have a cooler added into the radiator and keeping the front mounted one for looks? Raising the coolant thermostat to a 195f may also help.
I can't get over that your motor can't get hot enought and mine I can cook eggs on in just 5 minutes. This is also with the ERA street pipes. I have heat shields and fire barriers through out the car. A paxton hood pulls in air by the ton. I added to 4" fans to help remove the heat from the engine compartment out the side louvers. I swapped from the copper rad to the Aluminum Griffen one. The only thing I have not added is a fan schroud.
On a side note, how is the traction control working? Rick L.

[fkemmerer]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

fkemmerer Fred my motor like yours is all aluminum and we both run a FI system in our cars. I have the opposite problem of running too hot. I modifiled a 180 thermostat from a dodge bb to keep my temps in the 190's to 210 range after being on the track. Oil temps are in the 220f. I run the rotella 15-40 with lucas oil suppliment. I do have the twin fans in the nose instaed of the splitter. They look good but do little to move the air.
Have you thought about have a cooler added into the radiator and keeping the front mounted one for looks? Raising the coolant thermostat to a 195f may also help.
I can't get over that your motor can't get hot enought and mine I can cook eggs on in just 5 minutes. This is also with the ERA street pipes. I have heat shields and fire barriers through out the car. A paxton hood pulls in air by the ton. I added to 4" fans to help remove the heat from the engine compartment out the side louvers. I swapped from the copper rad to the Aluminum Griffen one. The only thing I have not added is a fan schroud.
On a side note, how is the traction control working? Rick L.

Rick,

What does your ignition timing look like at light loads and lower RPMs? I've found that not running enough can make a motor run very hot. I am running somthing like 34 degrees at idle (this may be too much depending upon your cam).

BTW, I am running ERA's radiator, their HD electric fan and the 2 small fans in the noise with no divider. My water temps will creep up to maybe 195 to 200 degrees if I let the car idle for awhile on a very warm day. I think that this is pretty much normal. Problem I have is getting the oil up to temperature.

Haven't gotten to the ETC yet. I have competition tires on my car so I have relatively good traction in low gear. I want to get everything else right with the motor, then do a full dyno tune on the car, and the last step will be the ETC calibration.

- Fred

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Mobil One 5W-30 or a similar synthetic oil will work well in low temp conditions.

I cannot understand why all these street driven Cobras have oil coolers, especially in cooler regions. I know you gotta have them for looks, but they don't allow the oil to get to proper operating temps. My oil temp runs about 180 in cool weather without the cooler hooked up, and I haven't ever seen it go above 200 in hot weather.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

I know you gotta have them for looks, but they don't allow the oil to get to proper operating temps. My oil temp runs about 180 in cool weather without the cooler hooked up, and I haven't ever seen it go above 200 in hot weather.

You echo my findings exactly ZO.

[Excaliber]

I'm thinking about adding a cooler to mine, I just HATE the open hole with nothing in it in the front.

...but I have no plans to make it actually work. Even here in Hawaii it's a struggle to get the oil temp up without a cooler!

[Mooch]

In regards to the discussion of oil temps, what are the thoughts regarding this:

http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/oi...lve-final.html

[ERA Chas]

It's a hellishly expensive on/off switch since no one needs it.
We've seen that coolers are only needed for track use, so it's far cheaper and effective to plug or remove adapters/remote filters (another expensive waste for cosmetic purposes) and tie the cooler lines in a safe place.

[patrickt]

It is expensive, but kind of cool. It's been too long ago for me to remember my conversation with Doug at ERA and the reason the sandwich thermostat wouldn't work with my remote filter, but had ERA offered an option for a switch like that on top, or on the side, of my filter adapter pictured below I would certainly have gone for it. Anything under $500 for that seems like a reasonable price, I doubt I would have gone for much over that (and truthfully I don't even need it).

[fkemmerer]

Well, I got part way with my Oil Cooler Thermostat installation today. I decided to make some custom brackets to allow the Canton Oil Thermostat that I am using to be mounted up front between the radiator and the frame cross brace where it is not going to be real visible. I fabricated the setup shown below to allow the Canton Thermostat to be mounted on the frame gussets for the tabs that hold the steering rack:



The machined aluminum clamps that are used to mount the Thermostat to the bracket are from Canton also.

The bracket raises the unit just enough (about 2") so that the side fittings will clear the lower radiator hose. As you can see from the pictures below, in a tight but nice fit:





And here's a closer shot of the installed unit:



I mached everything up with -10 AN hose ends and there will be plenty of room to route all of the hoses to the engine, remote oil filter housing, and the cooler. The brackets are off to the powder coater to be finished to match the rest of the ERA frame and then I'll do the final hoses and installation. I will post more pictures when the job is complete.

- Fred

[ERA Chas]

Fred,
Your work is impeccable but I will tell you-that's the exact location my long torque wrench with small extension and 5/8th socket goes (to rotate the balancer bolt) when I adjust valves or any time I have to rotate the motor by hand.

Can you see the marks on the balancer to set timing? I hope you don't have conflicts.

[fkemmerer]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Fred,
Your work is impeccable but I will tell you-that's the exact location my long torque wrench with small extension and 5/8th socket goes (to rotate the balancer bolt) when I adjust valves or any time I have to rotate the motor by hand.

Can you see the marks on the balancer to set timing? I hope you don't have conflicts.

Chas,

The thermostat (and all of the lines) are in front of the cross brace in the car. The balancer, timing tab, and the area you need to get at to turn the balancer is behind the cross brace so there is no interference. On a happy note, I have a hydraualic roller camshaft in my car so I don't adjust valves very much .

- Fred

[ERA Chas]

Understood Fred but I was concerned you might not have clearance between rad and thermo to swing wrench. It's clear you do your homework.

I knew you had a juice cam but there are times to get to the balancer and pulley area.

Nice work Fred.

PS-Please post oil temp testing results as this cool spell is upon us. Hope you get that 10-15 degree cushion you're looking for.

[fkemmerer]

Well the brackets for my Canton Oil Thermostat came back from the powder coater and I completed the installation in the car tonight. Here is a picture of the oil thermostat mounted on the powder coated brackets ready to go into the car:



It took me quite a bit of time to fabricate a new set of lines for the remote filter/ oil thermostat/ cooler combination. I used -10 Aeroquip fittings and braided stainless steel lines for the entire installation. Its important to take the time to make sure that all of the lines and the thermostat are completely clean before installation. I used a combination of a parts washer tank and an air hose to make sure that everything was clean and free of any fillings from the stainless braid on the hose. I also have an AN pressure test kit which I used to ensure that all of the lines did not leak before installing them.

Here are a couple of pictures of the final installation:





As you can see, everything is tucked up nicely down low between the radiator and the front frame cross brace. As you can see from the next picture, the thermostat and plumbing are hardly visible when viewing the engine bay from a normal angle - exactly what I was looking to achieve.



Before installing the thermostat, I could only get the oil temperature up to about 65 degrees C (150 degrees F) in the cool (50 degree F) fall weather here in New England. This was the case even with the oil cooler blocked with cardboard. It was too cold to take the car out at midnight when I got done but I did see the oil temperature rise to 80 degrees C (175 degrees F) with the car idling in my garage. I have never been able to get my oil this warm before so I'd say that the thermostat definitely helped. I will post some more temperature info when I get a chance to drive the car.

- Fred

[cobra]

fkemmerer

What a great work, it's a pleasure to look your pictures. Congratulations !
Do you have a second bracket for sell ?
Greetings from Switzerland
Walter

[fkemmerer]

Originally Posted by cobra

fkemmerer

What a great work, it's a pleasure to look your pictures. Congratulations !
Do you have a second bracket for sell ?
Greetings from Switzerland
Walter

Hi Walter,

Thank you for your kind words on my project. Unfortunately, the bracket was custom made for my car and application. Given the time required, I don't think that I'd want to make them to sell (it would be cheaper to get them made of silver I think ).

- Fred

[RedBarchetta]

Fred (Dad),

Will you adopt me?

Sincerely,

Your long lost son, Dean

P.S. A really clean install...love the custom brackets!