First Drive today - speedo and electrically issues / help?

Kramer · #1 (**permalink**) 11-08-2008, 10:08 PM

Today was the first day ERA 739 touched the street. I know its late in the year but at least she is now "roadworthy". To get to the point, I had a couple issues that I need some help on.

1) The speedo jumped around for a block or two and then total quick working. I checked the connections, reverse drive gear (for the smiths guage) and everything seems to be functioning ok? Do I need to check it on the transmission end?

2) The bigger problem is once I had the speed cable apart, I was going to take it for a drive to see if the cable coming off the tranmission was spinning but never got that far....dead battery (battery was brand new optima). After looking at all the wiring (the ERA foks did this part of the build for me), I also checked the alternator which seemed ok. The other part I noticed when the car was running is the ammeter never hardley moved...if anything only slightly negative but never positive. I took the battery to be checked out and it was dead ( I have it on a trickle charger tongiht)....I am afraid the same thing will happen tomorrow when I re-install it. NOTE...I took the alternator into a auto shop and it seemed good.....any thoughts????

Thanks, Kramer

Dangerous Doug · #2 (**permalink**) 11-08-2008, 10:56 PM

Congratulations! I fired my 289FIA up today for the first time. Didn't get to drive it, though (see my other pose on hydraulic throwout bearing).

On the speedo, make sure you lube it well before you run it through the casing.

On the electrical, my brand new battery was not strong enough to get me ignition today. After cranking and puzzeling, I jumped it with a friend's truck and it fired right up. Brand new battery really means nothing. It may be bad, or it may be weak. Driving around for a few minutes is not going to charge it sufficiently.

First, check for a drain on the battery. Disconnect the battery at the solenoid (easiest spot), and then put an ammeter on it to see if there is current flow. With all switches off you shouldn't have anything causing current flow.

Good luck.
Cheers,
Doug

strictlypersonl · #3 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 03:59 AM

There's a good charging troubleshooting section in this guide. A simple jumper will determine whether there's a problem with the voltage regulator or alternator. See page 7. Note that if the dash warning light doesn't work, the system won't initially energize.

RICK LAKE · #4 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 05:45 AM

Kramer I have found a couple of problem running the FI system and MSD togeather. When starting if the battery volts is 10.7 or less, you have poor voltage to the MSD and is hard starting. I am running a 800cca battery that is fully charged and have a trickle battery tender on it all the time. 12.45 volts is not enough some times when starting. I have talked to guys that are running 16 volt batterys. We measure everything by amp drain and forget about voltage loads too. Starter cranking, if a mini 90 to 160 amps, Msd on startup 40-60 amps, fuel pump(s) 20-30 amps, EFI computor 8-10 amps. I have the 63 Alt in my car. It is at max load with the coolant fans on (3) and the amp gauge is pinned to 60 volts. It is not recharging the battery until the fans kick off. PAperformance or Madalt both have kits for running larger charging systems. I need really go to a 95 to 110amp charging system. The amp gauge will have to be changed to a voltage gauge. You said you gauge doesn't move with the car running and only dips a little. Your Alt could be not spinning fast enought to charging. Either you are not charging or you are using the max charge the alt is putting out at idle. Mine drops at idle about 15-20 amps with fans on. With a higher charging system you will need to rewire for a voltage meter. Amp meters can safely handle 60 amps with 80 amp surges. Put a volt meter on the car when idling and is what the voltage is. Should be about 13.8 to 14.2 volts. If you are in the 12.8 - 13.2 at idle with just the basics running, it is not enough. You could have weak spark from the MSD even thou the car is running. Get some test numbers with stuff at idle and at 2,000 rpms. Volt readings will tell the story. The updated kit with a 100 amp alt and external voltage regulator is about $300.00 with a #4 gauge charging cable with built in max fuse of 200 or 250. You will want to change to a voltage gauge on the dash. Are you running under size pulleys? Rick L.

Kramer · #5 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 08:11 AM

Thanks Guys...a few thoughts/ responses:

1) so I don't forget about the speedo, is there an easy way to check this out?

2) I am fearful of digging into the electrical system but I will have to today. (Thanks Bob for the reference to the "primer". I actally found that when surfing your site last night so it may help as well. I am hoping it is something simple as the ALT not turning fast enough and draining the battery. ...prior to the first drive, I have run the car for a about 20 minutes probably two times in the drive way - never really keeping it above 2K rpm. Even when I drove it the today(which would be the third time running on this battery) I never kept it above 2k that much...simply b/c I didn't drive it too far.

Rick - I am going to have to check into the EFI system today. PS..I am running Accel/DFI Gen 7 with my set up.

Kramer

strictlypersonl · #6 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

The speedo jumped around for a block or two and then total quick working. I checked the connections, reverse drive gear (for the smiths guage) and everything seems to be functioning ok?

Do I need to check it on the transmission end?

Have you checked to see whether the cable is turning at the speedo head? If it isn't turning, you'll have to work your way back to the transmission gear: Remove the cable from the trans and check the condition of the gear. It's possible that you got a gear that's the wrong spiral to match the transmission drive gear. That will show up plainly in some ugly wear on the driven gear.

SSSammy · #7 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 11:21 AM

I don't have a lot to add on the battery, except that getting a good initial charge is impossible with a little 1 amp trickle. Use a big charger, or take it to an auto store and ask them to charge it for you. I bought a big charger from Sears .. $150 or so. Also, I had a poor connection at the red high amp connectors behind the dash. Just had to bend the tangs a little to make better contact.

Somewhere it is written that on the speedo cable, you need to remove about 1/8" from the tip that goes into the gauge. So the brass ferrule will seat against the input of the instrument. Do this with a ceramic cut off wheel on a dremel. After cutting it off, bevel deburr it a little on the four sides with the ceramic wheel.

At the tranny end, make sure you are using a reverse driven gear for a Tremec tranny, not the OEM Mustang or Cobra gear, which is for a Toploader. Yell if you need the part number and I will dig it out of my pile. And make sure the little ($10) spring clip that holds the gear on is in place correctly. I had to experiment with tooth count to get the speedo reading right. I ended up with 18 tooth for a 3.31 rear and 26.5" tires.

Congrats on finally being on the road! Now the fun begins! While you've been puttering all year, I'm on engine #3, tranny #3, differential #2, clutch #3 ..

You're never done

Sam

Kramer · #8 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 11:29 AM

Thanks Guys...after working this morning I think I am back on track on the electrical. After getting the battery back I tried to start it only to see smoke coming out by the firewall...that as was fun. For some reason when I am working with the speedo carble and reverse gear that plugs into the speedo something must have arc'd. I moved some of the wires to make sure I was ok and then I got it started. I took it for a drive around the block however my ammeter never goes to positive...should it?

Bob I am following your advice on the speedo...I took the cable off and drove the car around the block and nothing is turning from the cable to the transmission so I am now going to work backward to see what I can find.

Kramer.

FrankJohnson69 · #9 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 11:44 AM

On the speedo gear issue I went through 3 rings on the output shaft on my transmission. The reverser bound up the cable no matter what I did and caused the gear to lock up and strip both the gears in the trans. Needless to say you need to pull the tail shaft off to replace this and can be a pain. Pull the cable out of the trans and take a look in the hole with a light and also look at the gear on the cable. I think you'll have the same problem I did/have. Mine jumped just like yours did too and yes I have smiths gauges.

Ron61 · #10 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 11:56 AM

Kramer,

They have pretty well covered what to check for your speedometer, but one thing that wasn't said about the battery. Take a voltmeter and put it across the battery terminals.With the car running you should read around 14/15 volts. I never liked the amp gage and put a dash mounted volt meter in my car. If you are getting a low voltage reading with the motor running, ie 12/13 volts,then you have a problem with the charging system. Good luck and I hope you get the problems sorted out soon so you can really enjoy the car.

Ron

Kramer · #11 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 11:57 AM

Hey Frank...couple of questions:

1) What tranmissions are you running (I am running a tremec 5 speed).

2) Can you tell me what you mean by the 3 rings on the output shaft of the transmission?

Kramer

Kramer · #12 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 11:59 AM

Great Idea Ron.....I am going to check that now.

Kramer

FrankJohnson69 · #13 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kramer

Hey Frank...couple of questions:

1) What tranmissions are you running (I am running a tremec 5 speed).

2) Can you tell me what you mean by the 3 rings on the output shaft of the transmission?

Kramer

Hi,

I'm running a large spline closer ratio top loader.

Sorry, I had to replace the speedometer gear on the output shaft of the transmission 3 times. Fourth time was the charm and I also went with the standard rotation speedometer and everything works. I still have the reverse speedometer and will try it one more time down the road when I have time.

Hope the helps.

Kramer · #14 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 04:02 PM

Ok..well the speed cable was all bound up and broken. I finally pulled the cable completely out and is was bound up and broken near the transmission. The yellow connector into the transmission looked good so I think I just need to replace the cable. get it lubed up and put back in the car. I guess i need to make sure I am using the right gear going into the transmission.

On the electrical side, I think it might be best to replace the ammeter guage with a volt guage. I would guess someone makes a direct replacement for the ammeter smith guage. but I will get to that after i fix and re-route the speedo link up back in the car.

Kramer

FrankJohnson69 · #15 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 04:59 PM

What ever you do please call Doug on Monday at ERA. He has the fix for the speedometer reverser so it won't bind up the cable. It didn't work for me but may work for you. At least I hope so.

Frank

strictlypersonl · #16 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 05:05 PM

Make sure that the right-angle drive pin isn't binding up. It's in the manual. (I added it about a year ago, so you might have to download the latest one.)

767Jockey · #17 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 05:19 PM

If replacing a ammeter with a voltmeter, does the wiring have to be changed or does it use the same wiring? Does Smiths / Lucas make a correct looking voltmeter?

fkemmerer · #18 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 05:26 PM

Hi Kramer,

I've gone through what sounds like a similar problem with a reverse speedo on my ERA. I ended up breaking two cables before I figured it out with help from Doug (suggest you give him a call). My fix was a little involved and I've explained it near the end of the following thread:

http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/show...695#post896695

I hope this helps you.

- Fred

fkemmerer · #19 (**permalink**) 11-09-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

If replacing a ammeter with a voltmeter, does the wiring have to be changed or does it use the same wiring? Does Smiths / Lucas make a correct looking voltmeter?

I have a voltmeter on my car. Smith makes an authentic looking voltmeter that matches the other gauges nicely. Check out the following link for a picture of the Smith's style voltermeter:

http://www.nisonger.com/cobra-electronic-gauges.htm

The wiring is different. Best to talk with Bob at ERA about that part. He did a custom wiring setup on my ERA to accomodate a voltmeter from the start.

- Fred

Kramer · #20 (**permalink**) 11-10-2008, 01:10 PM

Hello Fred - as goes the speedometer I just wanted to say thanks b/c I am going to follow your plan laid out in the earlier thread. (I called Doug today but he is not in so I will talk to him tomorrow). In the meantime, I ordered the new cable and will prepare to go through your steps....Thank you for taking the time to help me.

Rick - The more I've talked with Bob this morning I am getting the feeling that when my TWM installer put in the stack system, he bypassed the waring light when putting the electric together for the car. If this is the case, the alternator isnt wired back to the voltage regulator....thus never recharging the battery. I am doing some research today but to feel comfortable I think I am going to retrace most of the wiring. (Especially after I was working on the speed yesterday and on one of my start attempts there was smoke coming from the firewall..my best guess is when I was working on the speed I push something into something else that momentarliy created a short.

More fun.....

Kramer