ERA #783 - with questions

[Mooch]

Hello all,

I’ve been lurking for about 2 years now, recently started posting, and am now officially getting into the forums. I’ve had my first deposit on an ERA 427 in since June, with the chassis number set in mid August. I’m looking to do what in my mind is the ideal original 427 S/C, and I know that is very subjective, with the best drive possible. For example, as much as I like the original colors, I’ve had the stereotypical white stripes on dark blue in my head since I was about ten years old. Also, I’m doing an aluminum block FE stroked to 482cid with a 5 speed transmission. Otherwise, it’s mostly based on the comp cars with the rivets, S/C dash w/o glove box, jack pads, etc. You can see a general option list below.

ERA #783
Pond 482cid hydraulic roller
Tremec TKO600 w/0.64 OD and 3.54 rear ERA dif
Competition front brakes
Vintage 6-pin Wheels with MT Sportsman S/T Radials
6 inch oil cooler with remote filter
Indigo Ink Pearl w/ White (shade TBD) Stripes by CT Custom Car
Riveted hood scoop with rivets around front of hood
S/C dash w/o glove box
Smiths gauges with reverse speedometer
Stainless side pipes with ceramic coated primary pipes
Powder coated chassis
Chrome driver’s side roll bar and chrome jack pads
Dual pusher fans with heavy duty fan
Sun visors and wind wings
Trunk mounted battery
Quick release steering wheel
Rear fender spats
Turkey Pan


I have a ton of questions, but here are the two foremost in my mind as trivial as they are. I don’t think there are right answers, so I’m really looking for opinions.

1) I’m planning on spraying the entire interior and trunk with Second Skin Audio Spectrum and Firewall for noise and heat suppression prior to carpet. I’m going to do undercoating/bedliner in the wheel wells. At the time it goes to paint, CT Custom Car can finish the inside of the trunk lid vs. covering it with the felt liner provided by ERA. So, do I have them finish it or do I noise suppress the trunk lid and cover it? Would the noise suppression make much of difference on the trunk lid? Yes, I know the exhaust will drown out most noise while riding. I'm looking for a more solid feel when opening and closing the trunk.

2) This one is a little more controversial in my head and I keep flip flopping between the two options. I want to drive the car year-round. While I do live in FL and it is usually a balmy 80 degrees here, it does get relatively cool here in the winter at times. Also, I may be moving back up north in the next few years depending on employment. I am getting the heater/defroster mostly for state requirements should I move, as I know it doesn’t really do much to keep you warm. That’s why I’m considering installing seat heaters, with the switches integrated into the dash if I can use Lucas switches, otherwise under the dash if I need to use the aftermarket switches. Part of me says it would be nice to have the heaters; the other part says it goes against the idea of the replica and just adds complexity to what is a beautifully simple car.

I'd also like to be able to drive it without worrying about the frequent rain here in FL, so the idea of a bare interior vs. removable carpet is a consideration and I wonder if seat heaters would complicate this.




OK, I think that is a long enough post for now.


thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for your opinions

[ERA Chas]

You asked for opinions, here are mine based on long-time ownership.

Originally Posted by Mooch

I have a ton of questions, but here are the two foremost in my mind as trivial as they are. I don’t think there are right answers, so I’m really looking for opinions.

1) I’m planning on spraying the entire interior and trunk with Second Skin Audio Spectrum and Firewall for noise and heat suppression prior to carpet. I’m going to do undercoating/bedliner in the wheel wells. At the time it goes to paint, CT Custom Car can finish the inside of the trunk lid vs. covering it with the felt liner provided by ERA. So, do I have them finish it or do I noise suppress the trunk lid and cover it? Would the noise suppression make much of difference on the trunk lid?

Use any finish you like but forget noise suppression. It's worthless on an open car with outside exhausts. Save the money. Regular undercoat is lighter than bed liner and works fine-mine is 18 years old and the fenders do not have rock marks.

2) This one is a little more controversial in my head and I keep flip flopping between the two options. I want to drive the car year-round. While I do live in FL and it is usually a balmy 80 degrees here, it does get relatively cool here in the winter at times. Also, I may be moving back up north in the next few years depending on employment. I am getting the heater/defroster mostly for state requirements should I move, as I know it doesn’t really do much to keep you warm. That’s why I’m considering installing seat heaters, with the switches integrated into the dash if I can use Lucas switches, otherwise under the dash if I need to use the aftermarket switches. Part of me says it would be nice to have the heaters; the other part says it goes against the idea of the replica and just adds complexity to what is a beautifully simple car.

There is a more compelling reason than personal comfort to not do this stuff-engine life and performance. Oil never gets to safe operating temps in 50 deg and lower temps.
See this page or the whole thread for a thorough discussion of the situation:
ERA 753 - Final Assembly in Progress

This applies where ever you live. There is no effective way to keep temp in the oil-more so if you have an aluminum Pond. You already want a remote filter, cooler and lines. You will read how that drains heat from the oil. Just don't drive below about 50 deg and your motor will live a long time.

I'd also like to be able to drive it without worrying about the frequent rain here in FL, so the idea of a bare interior vs. removable carpet is a consideration and I wonder if seat heaters would complicate this.

The reason not to drive in the rain is you have zero traction-don't care what tires you pick. You can't merge into traffic full of Hyundais going 80 with 600 Lb Ft of torque and zero traction. Ask me how I know and I've only tried it with 550 Lb Ft.
Even with a top you get water on the INSIDE of the windshield and a wet a$$. The reason for un-needed seat heaters is covered above. Best luck-ERA's are wonderful-keep it simple.

[brettco]

I took my 4 yr old boy for a 10 minute ride and noticed he was kind of quiet for being in the blue car. He said he didn't feel good and he looked worse so I felt his head and leg- both were burning up. These cars are so HOT I can't ever see the need for a heater. Crazy hot! The main reason my mid-late 90s Hi Tech has about a thousand miles on it.

[Mike Brasfield]

Heater, yes. You don't need it alot but when you do it is a real comfort. Living in AZ and using my heater during the winter months and my wife loves it. I just did an engine swap and I asked her if she wanted to replace the heater with a glove box. "NO way", she said. It would have been alot easier to lose all the hoses but my wife really enjoys the heater in the winter. Believe it or not, it actually snows here sometimes in the winter.

[patrickt]

1) Do not install noise suppression. Even the thought of noise suppression on the trunk lid is ridiculous. You will understand how ridiculous it is after you have owned a Cobra for a while.

2) Install a heater. I use it a couple of times a year and it's nice. Do not install seat heaters before you've owned the car for at least one full cold season.

3) You will not be driving your Cobra in the rain. If you do, opt for the soft top and side curtains. You will stay warm with the heater on, believe me, but it's not as much fun as you think it is.

[CJ428CJ]

Seat heaters are cheap. Why not install them now rather than having to worry about pulling the seats apart and wiring them later. I've installed them in my car and I use them a lot. Plus, my girlfriend is much more likely to agree to take the Cobra on a cool night if she knows we can turn on the heater and the seat heaters. I put the aftermarket switches inside the glove box.

Chris

[patrickt]

I just can't see him using seat warmers in Tampa/St. Pete, even in February... but what the heck.

[marcalan]

Install the seat heaters now, the folks at era ran the lines for me in chasis (dash thru lower door sill behind seats) and put the heaters in the seats. Bob also helped out with the extra wiring I needed to do to add it correctly to the existing ERA electrical wiring.

m-a

[patrickt]

Uhhh, you know that the average high temp in February in Tampa is 72 degrees?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

3) You will not be driving your Cobra in the rain. If you do, opt for the soft top and side curtains. You will stay warm with the heater on, believe me, but it's not as much fun as you think it is.

Aptly stated. The top and curtains are also not as much fun as you think-especially when you fog yourself in. Operating defrosters are a joke too.

[elmariachi]

All of your questions are typical of an owner-in-waiting. But once you have owned the car for a few months you will look back and laugh at yourself for having worried and contemplated frivolties such as seat heaters and noise and heat supression. By all means, heat suppression is worth considering, but these cars are LOUD, HOT and UNRULY no matter what you do and you'll be more preoccupied with keeping you and your occupant alive than worrying about whether or not your arse is toasty. It will be.

Just my .02c.

Jim

P.S. Congrats on the car. Can't beat the ERA/FE combo.

P.S.S. I just crossed the 1200 mile mark today and officially hate the .64 5th gear. I'd really research that if I were doing it again.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

P.S.S. I just crossed the 1200 mile mark today and officially hate the .64 5th gear. I'd really research that if I were doing it again.

What's your rear end ratio?

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

What's your rear end ratio?

3.50. I know.

The issue is the downshifting difference between 4th and 5th.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

3.50. I know.

The issue is the downshifting difference between 4th and 5th.

Yes, it's a big drop. I have a 3.54 (that's effectively the same as yourss) and the only thing I ever use it for is gentle highway cruising at 2000 RPM (70mph) or a little higher. It really can't be used for road racing. I do like the fact that when I do that though the car is actually pretty darn quiet. The wind noise is more than the pipes.

[patrickt]

With the 15" wheels and 3.54 rear, here are your RPM choices for 70MPH.

.64 --- 2000 RPM

.82 --- 2600 RPM

[Mooch]

I'm thinking of doing the 3.54 rear with the 0.64 5th because cruising in FL means 80-90mph. Yet again I might be moving back to the NE, where cruising means 70mph, in the next 2-3 years. I've been considering the 0.82, and if I go with it then the question is whether to go with a the 3.54 or the 3.31 rear. Gear ratios are here:

http://www.erareplicas.com/427man/tr...ring/index.htm

For the seat heaters, my wife enthusiastically votes yes we should have them. Even for 50 degree weather. So that might swing the vote.

Regarding the noise suppression, it isn't for actual sound, but more the vibration sense of the car. I like being able to knock on an aluminum panel and have it sound dead. Then again, is may be not be worth it for that either. What I'd really like to see is if the Firewall helps with cabin temperature.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

With the 15" wheels and 3.54 rear, here are your RPM choices for 70MPH.

.64 --- 2000 RPM

.82 --- 2600 RPM

I think I need to just ignore 5th altogether when running around in the 80-90mph Houston madness. I have heard that its a $1000 to swap the .64 for the .82, definitely not worth it, I'd change the rear ratio first.

I do like the way that torquey 294S cam takes over at 2k/70 mph mark and just pulls and pulls and pulls. And by the way, I pounded the absolute snot out of it today for 200 miles with the final timing and carb settings you and I discussed and with that new fan, it never got over 90*C water and 105*C oil. Runs great.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Mooch

I'm thinking of doing the 3.54 rear with the 0.64 5th because cruising in FL means 80-90mph. Yet again I might be moving back to the NE, where cruising means 70mph, in the next 2-3 years. I've been considering the 0.82, and if I go with it then the question is whether to go with a the 3.54 or the 3.31 rear.

Of all the choices you will make, trans/rear gearing will be one of the most important. Why? Because it's a reasonably large PITA to change and you will be unhappy if you make the wrong choice. There are tons of threads on here discussing it, but remember that the characteristics of your engine down around the 2000-2500 range will make or break the deal.

Originally Posted by Mooch

For the seat heaters, my wife enthusiastically votes yes we should have them. Even for 50 degree weather. So that might swing the vote.

Then I would absolutely, positively get them. Even if I knew in my heart that I would most likely never use them, I would still get them. That's an investment that will pay dividends.

Originally Posted by Mooch

Regarding the noise suppression, it isn't for actual sound, but more the vibration sense of the car. I like being able to knock on an aluminum panel and have it sound dead. Then again, is may be not be worth it for that either. What I'd really like to see is if the Firewall helps with cabin temperature.

The noise suppression is, IMHO, a waste of time and money (even if we're talking $250). The insulation that ERA installs is pretty good stuff. In my car, on really hot 95+ days, the heat does not come through the firewall, or bother my feet. But when the fans come on, and you're not moving, you can feel the heat come up around the windshield and doors like a hot wind. Again, this is one of those choices that, other than spending money, isn't going to hurt you. If it's a couple of hundred bucks then I say go ahead and do it. Because, if you don't, the first time you're slightly uncomfortable you'll think back and say "that damn patrickt, if it wasn't for him I'd have that extra insulation and I'd be happy now instead of sweating."

Originally Posted by elmariachi

I think I need to just ignore 5th altogether when running around in the 80-90mph Houston madness. I have heard that its a $1000 to swap the .64 for the .82, definitely not worth it, I'd change the rear ratio first.

I do like the way that torquey 294S cam takes over at 2k/70 mph mark and just pulls and pulls and pulls. And by the way, I pounded the absolute snot out of it today for 200 miles with the final timing and carb settings you and I discussed and with that new fan, it never got over 90*C water and 105*C oil. Runs great.

Revisit the gearing issue next year at this time. In the meantime, congratulate yourself on fixing that overheating issue. That was a pretty big deal.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

It sounds like you're on the right track. Don't sweat the small stuff. The insulation you speak of will probably be moot. Do install the heater/defroster and maybe the seat heaters. I'd go with the 3:50 rear with the .82 OD. When you're spending the kind of money you are who gives a $hit about a couple of mpg...you just want the engine to breath. Good luck.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

II'd go with the 3:50 rear with the .82 OD. When you're spending the kind of money you are who gives a $hit about a couple of mpg...you just want the engine to breath. Good luck.

With the 3.54 rear and .82 trans., for a relaxed 80mph cruise across Alligator Alley you'll be turning 3000rpm. I don't think Mooch and his better half will like that. On the other hand, if he moves to a state where the highway cruise is 55mph, a .64 5th gear will absolutely worthless.