ERA Brake Upgrade Questions

Argess · #1 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 12:54 PM

I take it some ERA owners have upgraded their brakes. I did a Search, but didnt' really find out the info I was looking for.

1/ Did they upgrade all four, or just the front?

2/ If they only did the front, did they adjust the brake bias?

3/ What's the common brand and part info for an upgrade?

Thank-you.

ps: Back when I built mine, the manual called for silicone brake fluid....(DOT 5?). That's what I used and havn't had any trouble with it. I see now it is no longer recommended. Don't think I"l change over at this point, but was wondering if anyone ever had trouble with the silicone stuff, or did a conversion (purge and replace).

Dangerous Doug · #2 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 02:07 PM

I upgraded my front brakes to SSBC's. I like them much better than the stock Camaro brakes---less pedal travel using two smaller pistons than the one big piston on the Camaro brakes. If you want, I can get the part number for you. Purchased from SummitRacing.

You basically want the SSBC front brake calipers that fit a 1970 Camaro.

I didn't measure braking capability with the Camaro brakes. For me, the "clicking" from the brake pads and the long pedal travel were nice to get rid of. I like the SSBC's MUCH better. I didn't have to adjust the brake bias.

DD

patrickt · #3 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 02:15 PM

Argess, do you have the Jag inboard rear? If so, upgrading those brakes is more of a nuisance. The ERA rear uses large outboard PBR calipers. If you upgrade the front brakes you may have to modify the steering knuckle as well -- my Sierras required that.

Jim Holden · #4 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 02:20 PM

The are a number of different brake options that I have seen on various ERAs. Bob Putnam can advise as to what fits and what does not. (See: http://www.erareplicas.com/427/bigbrake.htm)

As for the rears (assuming you have the inboard Jag. setup), I did go for a vented disc that utilized the standard Jag caliper, albeit with spacers for the wider disc. See: http://www.xks.com/shop/jaguar/ACCDe...spx?catID=5136

Jim

PS: I have Sierras on my FIA with ERA's outboard brake rear. The Jag. vented disc setup went on to my cousin's ERA427SC.

Excaliber · #5 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 02:42 PM

Myself, I've been very pleased with the stock brakes on my ERA. Pedal travel? Pffft, hardly any on mine. Good feel, I can modulate "just" to the point of impending lockup. I've done enough laps with the car to trust them, I dunno, their working for me. Inboard rears, by the way.

ERA Chas · #6 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 03:39 PM

Like Ernie did, ask yourself "do I really need a (an expensive) brake upgrade?" If yours are not working correctly, repair them. If they are and you plan track work then go ahead. Or if you want to enhance resale value.

ERA has the rotors, hats and spindles you'd need. You may need Tilton masters and ERA has those too. None of this is cheap however.

Yes, you adjust brake bias and yes vented rotors for the rear as Jim has are effective with the 12.19" fronts.

No matter what you do, lose the DOT5 and get DOT3 Castrol LMA in there.

Argess · #7 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 04:38 PM

I do have the in-board jag brakes, and I really wasn't too interested in upgrading them unless by upgrading the front, I'd find I can't get a decent brake bias adjustment.

Braking is fine, although I'm not sure if I could lock the wheels if I had to (yes, I know, locking the wheels decreases stopping effectiveness.....just trying to describe it).

I don't like the pad "clicking", but I can live with it.

I never really noticed the pedal travel was long.

The main reason I was asking, is that sometimes it seems like a front caliper is sticking a little bit after I let up on the brakes, so if I was going to replace calipers, why not a better, more effective, pair?

Ps again: and about the ps: Is DOT 5 really that bad? I'm suspicious if I change now, I won't be able to fully purge the system, and that mixing the two might cause seal damage.

Excaliber · #8 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 04:53 PM

I've run both in my ERA. It came with DOT 5, I switched to DOT 3, never really noticed a problem with DOT 5. My concern at the time was that I was running at the track and wanted every "edge" I could get to avoid over heating the brake fluid. DOT3 generally carries a higher temp rating.

It IS a pain to flush the system. I removed the bucket seats, which in itself is not a pleasant task. Then removed the small access panel inside the cockpit to gain easy access to the brakes, again, not pleasant.

Lastly I was VERY VERY careful when adding the new DOT3 because it WILL leave marks on your paint. Even a tiny drop will leave a mark. After I finished and had spilt a tiny bit near the brake reservoir container I flushed that area with water. To my horror I found out within a day or two splashing water from the hose caused a bit of brake fluid to fly out and onto the fender area. Sure enough, left a few tiny white spots on the fender. They won't buff out. I all ready got plenty "road rash" and such, so I shrugged it off.

BUT, what if I had a really nice high dollar show quality paint job? Devastating! You could make a case for DOT 5 all right!

Sounds like your calipers need maintenance, and I'll BET that little more than a good total FLUSH and BLEED will make a world of difference in how they feel! Just be extra careful if your using DOT 3 to do that!

Argess · #9 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 05:01 PM

Yes, regular brake fluid is an excellent paint remover. When I first tested my brakes during "the build", I had leaks as the factory hadn't tightened up the rear lines to the junction block (if I remember correctly). It was nice to know that none of my painted parts in that area suffered paint damage.

To finish off the thread, if there are any good recommendations for front calipers (and pads) that don't require steering parts to be modified, I'd very much like to know some details.

Dangerous Doug....did you have to modify anything?....and...er....how embarrassing....what does SSBC stand for?......I've got a mind block as I keep thinking S-Small-Block-Chevy".....LOL

Dangerous Doug · #10 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 05:38 PM

SSBC is Stainless Steel Brake Corporation (Corporation? Company? Something like that.)

No mods are necessary. Bolts right in to the brackets supplied by ERA.

The "clicking" of the Camaro brakes: I actually spoke with a guy at my local auto store that was a trained Chevrolet technician. Their actual Chevrolet shop manual says to take a chisel or a punch and smack the "ear" of the brake pad to deform the edge and thereby close the gap between the pins and the "ear". This sounded a bit hokey to me, but the guy swore that it was right in the Chevrolet manual for that era of brake caliper. You'd think somebody would just change the design on the brake pads...

SSBC's weren't cheap. I think I paid around $400 for mine.

I don't consider the upgrade necessary, but it is nice. Plenty of guys are using the Camaro brakes on the 427. For me, that "clicking" noise just drove me nucking futz!

Here is exactly what I bought:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SSB-A185-S/
$435

They don't "click". Pedal travel is better. I like them.

DD

Argess · #11 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 05:49 PM

Thank-you. I'd say that's exactly what I looking for. $435 I see, but you get the pads too. So, if regular calipers (plus my fancy-dancy caliper paint process) and pads come to $200, it only makes the upgrade $235 more. Like the half-full glass vs the half empty.....chuckle.

cobred · #12 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 06:00 PM

If you have a clicking sound there is something wrong with your car, not the design of the system. Most likely from the pad tabs not being bent over as stated in this thread and or from too rough a rotor finish.
If you suspect a caliper problem why not get 2 rebuilt calipers from a quality auto parts store, have the rotors turned and get quality pads from a g.m. dealer. This will still save you a couple of hundred dollars if you can do it yourself. Dont forget, those rotors were designed for a car much heavier then ours.

Excaliber · #13 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 07:28 PM

...full bleed and flush, reseat the pads, done. Even if you go with NEW stuff, you should STILL do a full flush/bleed. ERA 392, thats an older model, I would guess it's NEVER been flushed. I tell ya, it WILL make a heckuva a difference.

But new parts are more fun!

Argess · #14 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 07:53 PM

Well, putting on NEW calipers is an oportune time to FLUSH. So I get the best of both!

Cobrared, yes, a Camaro weighs more, but it also has power assist.

Yes, good old 392.....an original ERA, not like the later "continuation" ERAs....hehehehehe

You may think it's odd, ... me asking so many questions lately even though I ordered the kit way back in 93, delivery in 94 and on the road since 1996. But I've always been on my own on this car, and only recently discovered this site. A lot of experience and good info here.

Thanks to all who replied.

Excaliber · #15 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 08:44 PM

Quote:

...not like the later "continuation" ERAs....hehehehehe

I like this guy!

ERA 154 here.

Dangerous Doug · #16 (**permalink**) 10-01-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobred

If you have a clicking sound there is something wrong with your car, not the design of the system. Most likely from the pad tabs not being bent over as stated in this thread and or from too rough a rotor finish.

I beg to differ. The clicking of the Chevrolet brakes is a well-known problem, and, as I wrote earlier, you have to do a hokey tweek to silence them. Even with the ears pinched down correctly as I had done, the pads shift from pin to pin as you rotate the wheel back and forth.

Most people probably wouldn't even notice it, but certain noises make my skin crawl. It was either get a louder engine or swap the Camaro calipers out.

I've looked at them a great deal, on and off the car. Tighter tolerances would have corrected the problem.

DD

RICK LAKE · #17 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 03:58 AM

Dangerous Doug The orange bottle of permatex and the anti rattle clips is all that is needed. If there is a clicking noise, this is coming from worn out caliper sliding points. Alot of people throw out the clips or they break and are not replaced. There are gap numbers of about .030" limit between pads and caliper surface. The other thing is greasing the sliding surface on the calipers.

Agress 70% of braking is done by front brakes. ERA 428 has the upgraded 12" rotor setup with Sierria calipers. Racing 10 years and very happy with the braking system in the car. I didn't change the bias from when it was assemblied at ERA. I am running in board brakes, solid rotors. I do have ducts going to the rear rotors for cooling. DOT 3 is all I use. I change it when the PH strip goes bad. I don't like #4 or #5 fluid. Have used them along time ago. They also hold more moisture than #3. They killed seals in my bike calipers over time. #3 is cheap, flushing is the only pain. Any kind of ducting for the brakes will also extend the life of the fluid and pads and rotors. Low ride height of an ERA makes the ducting a little harder to last. Oval tubing has helped. Rick L.

ack fia · #18 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 06:01 AM

I track my car often. I put on a set of SSBC brakes in the front and stock Jag (solid rotors) in the back. I use Castrol Race Fluid (expensive). The only place I have experienced a problem (the pedel went to the floor and I could smell it coming) was at Louden which is a short track requiring lots of braking.
On the big tracks (VIR, WGI, MMC etc.) I don't have a problem.
Can someone who has cooling to the back inboards publish pictures?
Thanks,
Pat

Jim Holden · #19 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 08:26 AM

For duct work to the rear brakes no one could do a systm better than Don ("McFez") Durner... looked like hell but apparently worked well. I'll see if I can find some pictures.

Jim

Dangerous Doug · #20 (**permalink**) 10-02-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

Dangerous Doug The orange bottle of permatex and the anti rattle clips is all that is needed. If there is a clicking noise, this is coming from worn out caliper sliding points. Alot of people throw out the clips or they break and are not replaced. There are gap numbers of about .030" limit between pads and caliper surface. The other thing is greasing the sliding surface on the calipers.

Yup, did the permatex. Clamped the ears. Pins are new and not worn out. Heavily greased. Gap is more like 1/16". Still clicked. Bugged me. Replaced them. Me happy now.

DD