Edelbrock water pump bearing problems?

[undy]

Just curious, has anybody had any premature bearing failures with their Edelbrock water pumps, FE or otherwise? Another question, are they rebuidable with part availability?

Here's my tale of woe...

For the last several months or more I've had a mysterious "metallic" rattle, apparently coming from the front of my 482. I've been doing a combination of procrastinating, listening if it got worse so I could pin it down or seeing if there were other side affects. It finally got bad enough to where I felt the need to take action, there were no side affects. I always had a hunch that it was a water pump bearing, having heard that "death rattle" sound before ... but, for my own sanity I had to look for the proof I needed. Knowing about reported problems with dizzy gear selection while running hydraulic rollers my initial paranoia was aimed in that direction. I yanked the dizzy and did a gear inspect. Everything looked good there, normal contact pattern half way up from the root. I then stuck a pry bar down the dizzy hole and tried to move the camshaft fore and aft, to see if I had undue "cam walk" everything was normal there too. In my mind two possibilities remained, slop in the timing chain or the water pump bearing. The easiest next step was to warm the engine up where it would sustain an idle and the "rattle" was extremely audible. I did so, shut here down and took off the drive belt so the water pump wouldn't spin. I fired it back up and in the direction of the engine front it was as quiet as church mouse, well almost. I revved it a couple times to ensure the sound was gone under all situations ... it was. I just came in from tearing it down and cleaning all gasket surfaces. I'll call Ebok in the AM to see what they have to say, rebuildible or not?

I've always wanted an excuse to change my March water pump pulley from a two groove to a one groove. Guess I'll thank my lucky stars that I was afforded the opportunity.

[patrickt]

This would have come in handy -- your waterpump would have sounded like a Gatling Gun going off in your ear. And no, don't bother rebuilding it; get a new one.

[CJ428CJ]

I don't know whether they're rebuildable or not but I have about 27,000 miles on mine with no problems.

[twobjshelbys]

Not worth rebuilding. Get a new one from summit racing.

[tboneheller]

Rebuild it for less than 10 bucks.

[undy]

Originally Posted by tboneheller

Rebuild it for less than 10 bucks.

Care to elaborate a little more, parts source, quality and availability?

It also looks like the hub is pressed on the shaft. That adds new costs/problems to the mix. I now need to hire a shop for the press off/press on work and the hub has to be pressed on to a certain position to maintain pulley allignment. How much cost and energy do I want to expend on a $171 new water pump?

Originally Posted by patrickt

This would have come in handy -- your waterpump would have sounded like a Gatling Gun going off in your ear. And no, don't bother rebuilding it; get a new one.

Yep, got one of them myself. In this case it's so easy to check with 100% reliability by simply taking off the belt. Checking the dizzy gear and cam walk just gave me a little "feel good"..

It did sound that way and also made a terrible rattle upon shut down. I ordered a new one last night but I wouldn't mind having a rebuilt spare. That's a whole lot of aluminum to pitch in the recycle bin.

[tboneheller]

Take it apart & give the part #'s of the bearing & seal to these guys: http://bearingsdrives.com

[RodgerH]

Why would you want to throw away a high dollar item when it can be repaired with a couple of relatively low dollar parts and a couple of hours of your time spent working on your hobby? That's what being a gearhead is all about!

Rodger

[kgs365]

what about sending it back to edelbrock and see if they will repair?....they may be interested in finding out why it gave out so early in its life..who knows you may get a replacement for the cost of shipping?

[FFR428]

Dave if you end up taking it apart please post the brand and part# of the bearing they used. I've been reading these posts for years about premature failures in the Ebok pumps. Either they are great without issue and last forever or fail way before their time. Strange. Have to wonder if the bearings come from a few different sources?

[undy]

Roger,

I'm not abject to spending some time but I want to ensure the rebuild ends up being reliable. The PITA brought about by the water pump change is worth a whole lot more than the 170 bucks of a new pump.

KGS,

As soon as Ebok opens this AM I'll be on the phone to them. My new one's coming from Summit with my new 6' OD single groove pulley and will be here Wednesday. I definately wouldn't mind having a factory rebuilt spare though. Ebok's normal stance is: "No, we've never heard of that problem before." It would seem in cases such as this that their response is driven by fear of liability, ignorance or just a general lack of concern..

Tbone,

Thanks for the link, will check it out. If Ebok goes belly up on a rebuild then I'll do some water pump forensics and see if I can find some part numbers.

Dave

[undy]

Originally Posted by FFR428

Dave if you end up taking it apart please post the brand and part# of the bearing they used. I've been reading these posts for years about premature failures in the Ebok pumps. Either they are great without issue and last forever or fail way before their time. Strange. Have to wonder if the bearings come from a few different sources?

Thanks Glenn, will do. I've heard from other sources about the Ebok water pump bearing/seal problems and was interested if any board members had problems.

Sporadic failures could be attributed to excessive pump shaft radial preloads (belts too tight)?

Dave

[Snakebit]

I thought they advertise Edlebrock pumps as being rebuildable? A good machinest should be able to press in the new hub as good as new.

[RodgerH]

Dave, I totally agree with you...it is a PITA to changeout a water pump. I have done many, but never on the Cobra, and I don't look forward to that day. I've been blessed that my Edelbrock pump has not given me any problem.

I guess part of my thought was directed towards how confident are we that a new Edelbrock pump will be any more reliable than the failed unit? I base this only on the inconsistent reliability reports and our lack of knowledge about the quality control Edelbrock has in place for parts and assembly.

My thought has always been that if a task is within my ability and I do it myself (or under my eye), at least I know it was done the best I knew how and with the best parts I could find.

Part of the joy of being a gearhead!

Rodger

[undy]

I just got off the phone with Ebok tech. I can ship the water pump back to them with a check for 75 bucks and they'll re-manufacture it and send it back, freight back included in the 75 bucks.. I think I'll send it back and end up keeping it for a spare..

They wouldn't sell me any parts to do it myself. Actually, for the $75 it's not worth messing with it anyway.

[Zoom This]

Yep. My Edelbrock Victor series water pump started dribbling coolant out of the weeping hole just below the pump shaft a few months after my motor was complete. I called Edelbrock and they said they would rebuild it for $75 also. I wrote a letter to Vic Edelbrock about the pump, but never heard back. Why am I not surprised. Pump still works after 8000 miles but still dribbles when engine is warm.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by Zoom This

My Edelbrock Victor series water pump started dribbling coolant out of the weeping hole just below the pump shaft a few months after my motor was complete.

Which, if typical, was long after the warranty had expired, since engines tend to sit around a while before being first installed.

I'm sure it's a great cost control feature to have some large percentage of their products fall out of warranty before turning their first mile.

[undy]

Well .... serves me right. I should have used the stethoscope like Pat said..

I installed the new waterpump/pulley after work today and I've got the same m@#*er fu#$@ng noise, exactly the same noise.. You can loosen the V-belt all the way and the noise stops. With a tight belt you can put your hand on the alternator and feel it "jump" in rythm with the noise. You can also pick the alternator noise up with the stethoscope. Go figure... I've got another "full-dresser" chrome 140 amp powermaster coming from Jegs, same model number.. I'm rapidly running out of parts to replace.

Measure twice, cut once..

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

Well .... serves me right. I should have used the stethoscope like Pat said..

Well, at times like this I hate being right.

[undy]

The good news is that the problem's fixed and there is no more noise.

The bad news is that I absolutely wasted $500 in fixing it, to include the alternator that was thought to be the absolute cure. I needed to step back and re-evaluate my trouble shooting thought process.

Known fact:
The noise completely went away when the alternator/water pump
drive belt was removed.

Known fact:
The replacement of the water pump and alternator had no effect
on the noise.

What the he!! else could it be?? What's left in the accessory drive circuit? Ahhh ... the single groove crank pulley. Could it be? I jacked the car to have a look. All 3 pulley retaining bolts were a tad loose. I pulled the bolts and the pulley. All three pulley holes were slightly egged out and you could see witness marks where the pulley had been rocking right to left, same on the bolts too. It appeared I'd finally found the problem.

The pulley is a factory stamped steel single groove pulley, part number: C8AE-6A312-B. It measures 6 3/4" in diameter and coupled with my 6" single groove March water pump pulley gives me the water pump overdrive that a cooling challenged FE does so crave.

I got on the 'puter and did a search on Flea Bay along with Mr Google and came up with a couple used pulleys with holes as wallowed out as mine. March's pullies are only 5 1/2" in diameter, with them I'd be going from over driven to under driven. That won't work. I could find no re-pops of the OEM one either. At that time I decided to rework and reuse the one I had. I re-flattened the contact face of the pulley, grabbed 3 new grade 8 bolts, flat and lock washers. I put some blue loc-tite on the bolts and tightened up everything up. All's quite now, quieter than it's been in a very long time.

I might have a "gently" used Ebok water pump and 140 amp chromed-out Power Master 1 or 3 wire "SI" GM alternator to post on the "Pay It Forward" thread in the very near future.