Upcoming FE build: plan coming together

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by aks801

Hey everyone, OP here.

Whew! Thought I'd go ahead and step back in. This comment resonated with me, as it really reflects the individual and passionate nature of these cars. Elmariachi (my H-town neighbor who I need to hook up with and meet sometime!) also stated that Webers were the last thing he'd do, in terms of build order. I'm just the opposite of both of these: the high-priced aluminum block would be fantastic, but just not something I would allocate the bucks on. Webers are something I want right out of the chute. So, we all makes our choices, as they say. To me, if I go with a 390 block I won't feel like I'm "settling" or something. It gets me into the FE family, and everything from the heads on up will be exotica (yep, you can go ahead and substitue an r for that x, by the way...).

It's all good....

Barry great post. Alan (OP) even a better post.

That's why they make chocolate, vanilla and strawberry ice cream, uh yogurt too.

[Gunner]

Originally Posted by aks801

To me, if I go with a 390 block I won't feel like I'm "settling" or something.

That's because you're not. It's a far better choice, IMVVHO, than many choices you could make. *cough* *wedge* *cough*.

Slap those chrome pentroof covers on them, 427 badges flashing in the sun, and only those curious (or tasteless) enough to ask a lot of questions will ever know the difference. Those badges sit on top of a whole lotta mills that aren't even in the 427 family...

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by Gunner

Those badges sit on top of a whole lotta mills that aren't even in the 427 family...

Mine don't say "427." he he he



Steve

[aks801]

Play nice, Steve.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Barry_R

Don't want to upset anyone. But Ford did not turn 390s into 428s for service. You occasionally find a 391 truck block that'll go to the 428 bore, but they are not the norm by a long shot. Some service blocks were apparently 391/428 castings that could be machined as needed - but they had 391 features like the big distributor hole and the compressor oil return passage. Most .080 over 390s are ebay specials that'll split a cylinder wall somewhere down the road. Could last hours, weeks, or years - no guarantee.

I'm not upset and respect your knowledge. My source for my statement was "Ford Performance" by Pat Ganahl page 50.

"All replacement 428 blocks sold by Ford after '72 were bored-out 391 truck blocks." He then goes on to describe the differences in the truck block. The previous sentence stated that some 390 blocks can be bored to 4.13 (428) if sonic checked.

My memory is not what it once was. I remembered it as the 390, but he stated 391. I know they are not the same, but I kind of lump them into the same catagory.

I think you were saying some of the same things. Do you agree with the quote from the book?

Jim Dove's web site also states some 390 blocks can be bore to a 428, and he has a chart on the allen wrench test between the cylinders through the freeze plugs, as a quick way to rule a block as worthy of sonic testing.

A couple years ago the Ohio Cobra Club's raffle car for the London show had a 390 block bored to 428. At least that is what I remember. I believe this is practiced and have read several sources saying it is ok if there is enough wall thinkness. All sources caution that most 390 blocks do not have enough meat, but some do. Just because something is done by many, it doesn't mean it is the right thing to do. So I am not argueing it is right. I just want to be clear when I ask "Is it your opinion that even if there is enough meat, there is a higher risk of failure?"

[undy]

Originally Posted by olddog

I'm not upset and respect your knowledge. My source for my statement was "Ford Performance" by Pat Ganahl page 50.

"All replacement 428 blocks sold by Ford after '72 were bored-out 391 truck blocks." He then goes on to describe the differences in the truck block. The previous sentence stated that some 390 blocks can be bored to 4.13 (428) if sonic checked.

That's not true right there.. I had a 74 428 service bock motor with the small distributor hole and the "428" cast into coolant jacket. It was a purpose cast 428 block. I'll take first hand knowledge over a book quote any day of the week..

[RICK LAKE]

Olddog, No engine builder can make that call. The best they can do is sonic test and pressure test the block. Maniflux it for cracks. If you are looking for 500+ HP out of this overbored block a partial fill of blockloc will help enforce the cylinder walls and stablize it. How much abuse it this motor going to get?? Normal driver with a Little play time, seen guys run this way for years. I think that is you talk to Keith, George, or a couple of the other top motor builders for FE motors, they will say that 80-90% of the motor living is from good machine work, preparation, clean area, good assembly skills, and breakin running. Possible, Yes. Doable Sure. Lasting a long time, Maintainance and luck.
As far as Pat Ganahl It's got alot of good info for a first time Ford motor builder or someone looking at buying a used block. They are few things that I have other articles and books that say different things. You also have again some of the best FE builders still around for the 60's on the west coast that should have writen the book. Finding and reading as many FE buildups as possible and getting the correct ID# for parts is the best place to start before BUYING and thing. I learned this the hard way too. I have a 428 motor in the shed that was to be a 428. When I removed the heads found a 4.05 bore with a 3.98 stroke. I have a 410. Guy wouldn't let me pull the motor apart to check. This should have raised a RED flag. I was stupid to not walk away but the fact of seeing it was too much and all the other info and serial number he had that the motor came out of an LTD car. Live and learn.

As far as old blocks, we ran 100K seasoned blocks for years with no failures to them and bored them .060" The material pour they where made with had some last forever and some not make it out of the dyno room. The nickle content was the big thing for strength of the block and iron IMO. Rick L.

[lovehamr]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

Finding and reading as many FE buildups as possible and getting the correct ID# for parts is the best place to start before BUYING and thing. I learned this the hard way too. I have a 428 motor in the shed that was to be a 428. When I removed the heads found a 4.05 bore with a 3.98 stroke. I have a 410. Guy wouldn't let me pull the motor apart to check. This should have raised a RED flag. I was stupid to not walk away but the fact of seeing it was too much and all the other info and serial number he had that the motor came out of an LTD car. Live and learn..

This is why it took me 6 mos to select a block after I finally made the decision to go with an FE! Just way to many conflicting opinions and #s to digest.

Steve

[rustyBob]

For the first timer i say a mild 390 in the 400 hp range is plenty of motor for the person that wants an FE for the LOOK of a 427.........
if you are a more seasoned driver of this type of car then by all means use a 428 or a 427 with higher HP in the 700 range or higher.........
weather you choose the mild motor or you go for the fire breathing rompin stompin tire burning monster motor remember this.........either one can get you into some serious trouble.........
dont let the cubic dollers out weigh the common sence.

[Excaliber]

Actually I had a 427 pushing 700 horse and frankly it was a pain in the butt. Now IF you can build a motor that put's out that kind of horse power AND is street friendly with good longevity then I MIGHT be interested.

For those who want BIG horse power numbers I've found 500 plus is just about right, 400-450 is entirely satisfactory. Much of the "experience", the feel, the soul of the car has to do with gear and tire selection. Unless your running slicks anything more than 500 is interesting, fun, dangerous, kind of cool, good braggin' rights but for the most part a waste of time and money.

[undy]

With me ... my Cobra had to be faster than the daily driver. I'm a HP junky anyway. It originally had a 428 in it and was sold originally as a turn-key car by LSC, titled and registered. The 428 just didn't cut it, too lethargic for my tastes. The DD would simply tear it a new a$$ hole, any time any way. That is the reason I dumped the 428 for a twin carb'd Pond 482 S/O, with around 600 HP. The DD still dynos more with 508 rwhp but the Cobra's weight difference make up the difference. The M/T drag radials on the Cobra put the power to the ground nicely too. A 300hp progressive fogger system may be in the future too for the Cobra as I still find it a little lacking. that's just me though..

[lovehamr]

OK Dave, I give..................DD?

[undy]

Originally Posted by lovehamr

OK Dave, I give..................DD?

Daily Driver..

[Excaliber]

Oh, I thought it meant really BIG headlights...

[olddog]

Undy just made the best case for why someone, who is not wanting monster power, should drop in a 390 on a Cobra build. Because it is easy to pull it out and slide in a real big block with real power. A Windsor stroker is lighter, cheaper, and easier to do, but if you ever decide to move up to a 427 based FE stroker, its going to be a costly pain in the butt conversion. Fact is, I would sell my SB Cobra and either pick up another with a FE already in it, or build one from scratch.