Sleeves in a 427 Fe

dlampe · #1 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 04:37 PM

Some of you have seen my thread about an .080 overbore block I have. It is a 427 Center oiler with two sleeves. The current sleeves have an OD of 4.335. I was wondering if I could just drop 8 new sleeves into this block? Can I basically cut the entire original cylinder out of the engine and put in new sleeves? I thought I saw somewhere that someone had done just that with a 390 and used 427 size sleeves to get the 4.23 bore. Can it be done? Should it be done? Can I get sleeves large enough to use a 4.310 Piston?

Ibr8k4vetts · #2 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 05:13 PM

I think a guy at http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/ did it and it didn't work very well.

Gunner · #3 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 05:14 PM

It seems like sleeves should work better than they actually do. A lot of very exotic aluminum engines are designed around iron sleeves, so why iron sleeves in an iron block are so problematic is... puzzling.

Igofastr · #4 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlampe

Some of you have seen my thread about an .080 overbore block I have. It is a 427 Center oiler with two sleeves. The current sleeves have an OD of 4.335. I was wondering if I could just drop 8 new sleeves into this block? Can I basically cut the entire original cylinder out of the engine and put in new sleeves? I thought I saw somewhere that someone had done just that with a 390 and used 427 size sleeves to get the 4.23 bore. Can it be done? Should it be done? Can I get sleeves large enough to use a 4.310 Piston?

Dean,

You could do that, but the cost to do so would likely be much greater than just buying a new block. If you have diffuculty finding a genuine 427 block, there are lots of 390s with enough material to bore out. Just do the ole 1/8th drill bit test followed by sonic testing.

Pretty much once you get past 2-3 sleeves, it's probably time to move on unless there is something special about the block.

I still like your SPF GT

lineslinger · #5 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 08:38 PM

Dean,
We took a 68' 427SO block that was bored .060 over and sleeved all eight cylinders. Once all tolerances were double checked liquid nitrogen was used to reduce the sleeve size and then they were pressed in and allowed to season, (heat and cold) for a couple of weeks. With the sleeve inserts taking it back to original bore size, we took it out to .015 and built the engine from there.
A sleeved block, if properly prepped and assembled, will offer longevity and stability, and eliminate the anxiety over skinny cylinder walls.
Ask George Anderson@Gessford, he didn't work on my engine but he was generous enough to offer some insight when asked.

Mark

lovehamr · #6 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Igofastr

there are lots of 390s with enough material to bore out. Just do the ole 1/8th drill bit test followed by sonic testing.

Ron, I think you have the 428 and 427 blocks confused. While there are some 390 blocks that will go to a 428 bore I'm not aware of any that will go to the larger 427 bore. If I'm wrong on this you guys can call me out, but I don't think so.

Steve

*13* · #7 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 08:58 PM

Slightly Off Subject but... What does a sleeve job Cost?

ccm399 · #8 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 09:22 PM

Probably depends on your area but around here it is about $100-125/hole plus the sleeves.

And as others have mentioned done correctly sleeves are normally just fine. You can absolutely remove the old sleeves, there is more than one way to do it but cutting them out works very well.

I used to be an engine builder for 15+ years and we sleeved blocks all the time. Most of the time it was not all 8 as the cost was normally out of sight but if the block was rare enough we did it.

Hope this helps.

Chris

Gunner · #9 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Slightly Off Subject but... What does a sleeve job Cost?

Quote:

Probably depends on your area but around here it is about $100-125/hole plus the sleeves.

Mmph. Snork. <runs away giggling into his own sleeve>

<hollers back> "Twenty bucks, same as in town!"

xlr8or · #10 (**permalink**) 12-11-2009, 11:15 PM

I talked to George Anderson about it as well for a block I was considering but it turned out to have other problems that prevented using it but he was confident in the process and durability.

Igofastr · #11 (**permalink**) 12-12-2009, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovehamr

Ron, I think you have the 428 and 427 blocks confused. While there are some 390 blocks that will go to a 428 bore I'm not aware of any that will go to the larger 427 bore. If I'm wrong on this you guys can call me out, but I don't think so.

Steve

Steve,

Brain Fart. I think you're right. Asleep at the wheel over here.

undy · #12 (**permalink**) 12-12-2009, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *13*

Slightly Off Subject but... What does a sleeve job Cost?

Sorry... can't help myself. You'll have to ask Tiger

ccm399 · #13 (**permalink**) 12-12-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunner

Mmph. Snork. <runs away giggling into his own sleeve>

<hollers back> "Twenty bucks, same as in town!"

?????

I guess I should have said per cylinder.....

lineslinger · #14 (**permalink**) 12-12-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *13*

Slightly Off Subject but... What does a sleeve job Cost?

It cost me $80 per cylinder as the builder who did the work was on the "payroll" for all machine work on this specific build, plus he's a friend.
I was lucky enough to find an original 427 SO block for $1500. The cost of the block was "low" because it was .060 over on all cylinders.

So, I ended up with an original, seasoned and updated SO block for just under $2200.

dlampe · #15 (**permalink**) 12-12-2009, 11:15 AM

Can you see any trouble with 8 sleeves in a block the is .080 over already with 2 bad cylinders that have already been sleeved? As I said, the sleeved cylinders were bored to 4.335 to accommodate the sleeves.

lineslinger · #16 (**permalink**) 12-12-2009, 12:35 PM

Dean,
A 4.335 bore should leave plenty of stability/rigidity within the block structure to put a new set of sleeves in. My point being you can save some substantial bucks and end up with a reliable base engine component.
"If" it were mine I would be asking myself about projected use, long term intentions blah, blah, blah,.....you know the drill.
What are you thinking of putting this in anyway.....?

PatBuckley · #17 (**permalink**) 12-12-2009, 12:48 PM

Sleeving all 8, if done correctly, is NOT a problem. You end up with real good quality cylinder bores as well.

Cost is about $100 to $125 a hole and you get a standard bore 427. Then you go .015 over to get a good piston/ring selection.

dlampe · #18 (**permalink**) 12-12-2009, 02:04 PM

Here are the options. I can have a std bore 428 for $800 that my builder will sell me. All I need are pistons and some machine work. That would cost about $2500 all in. I could have the current 427 sleeved for $800 - $1000 plus pistons and some machine work. Probably about the same price. Finally I could go with a pond block for about $5000 plus machine work which would probably land around $6000. I have already paid for the .080 427 with all new internals so everything should just transfer over. If it was two years ago and the cobra market was still good, I wouldn't mind the pond block option. Do you think an aluminum pond block is worth $3500 more to a cobra buyer over an original 427 engine?

ERA Chas · #19 (**permalink**) 12-12-2009, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlampe

Do you think an aluminum pond block is worth $3500 more to a cobra buyer over an original 427 engine?

Over a an eight-holed sleeved Center-oiler 427?

YES.

dcdoug · #20 (**permalink**) 12-12-2009, 02:54 PM

Reselling a cobra with an eight-holed sleeved 427 sounds a bit dicey. Might turn off a lot of buyers.



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