Pilot Bearing Removal?

[patrickt]

Just so everybody knows, I was absolutely serious about using the wet toilet paper, instead of grease, to act as a hydraulic impact removal tool for the pilot bearing. You just dip the new, unused toilet paper into a cup of water so that it makes a papery-goo and then use that goo as you would the grease to pack the pilot bearing hole. It's an "old school" trick and, believe me, TP is a hundred times easier to clean up than grease.

[CobraEd]

Do u recomend premium TP like Charmin Ultra Soft ?????


.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

Do u recomend premium TP like Charmin Ultra Soft ????? .

Only if it's plain white. If it has colors, or a fragrance, then it will give your rear seal a rash.

[blykins]

Yeah, that's all you FE guys need is something else to make your rear seal leak....

[FatBoy]

Thanks for all the advice and suggestions.

I'm a little confused about my pilot bearing. Here is a picture:



Which bit is the bearing? Is it the part inside the red circle or just the bit inside the blue circle? If it's the larger bit, it appears to have been counter-bored in the centre, is that usual or has it been installed back to front?

Thanks again.

Paul

[blykins]

The pilot bushing is the part that the blue ring is on. It's basically a big thick bronze donut. It almost looks like yours has been bored and sleeved, or counterbored.

[blykins]

Hope this link works:

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Det...+50026+2026026

That's what it should look like.

[blykins]

What bellhousing are you using?

[FatBoy]

Originally Posted by blykins

What bellhousing are you using?

Lakewood. Does that make a difference?

[blykins]

No.

I'm just curious as to why your bushing was counterbored. Sometimes that's done when there is some interference between the splines on the input shaft and the bushing.

Anyway you can provide some basic dimensions so that we can do some math?

[FatBoy]

I've just measured the spigot diameter on the gearbox shaft and that is 0.670", so that would appear to be correct for the bearing you identified with a 0.6725" ID.

Given that my input shaft has been flapping around in an oversize hole, I guess this could be the cause of my oil leak from the front of the gearbox.

What other dimensions do you need?

[blykins]

I'd like to know if the splines on the input shaft are too close to the pilot bushing. That bushing has been modified for a reason, know what I mean?

I'd hate for you to pop a new bushing in and then find that the input shaft is bottoming out on it.

Anyway you can put the bellhousing back on the engine without the flywheel and clutch, then measure from the pilot bushing to the flange.......then measure from the transmission flange to the end of the input shaft (both to the splines and then to the end of the pilot)?

See what I mean? I'm probably not describing this well at all.

[patrickt]

FB, what Brent is trying to say is that if the input shaft of the transmission sticks in to the crank and pilot bushing with too much pressure pushing against it then you will have significant problems (you will burn up your thrust bearing quickly). Measurements here are critical. The input shaft needs to rest inside the bearing, not try and push the crank out through the nose of the car.

[blykins]

Right, in normal situations, the pilot of the input shaft is the only thing that should be near the pilot bushing. Sometimes because of input shaft length, bellhousing design, etc., the splines of the input shaft will contact the pilot bushing. Yours has been counterbored for a reason, so I expect that's the reason.

We need to verify dimensions so that we can remedy the problem.

[FatBoy]

I did post another reply, but for some reason it hasn't appeared.

Installing the heavy Lakewood and threading it up between the chassis rails is a pig of a job single handed. So I've been out and taken some measurements without installing it.

By measuring the face to face on the Lakewood, plus the thickness of the block-plate and then subtracting the distance from the front of the bearing to the block mating face and the distance from the gearbox face to the base of the spigot, I'm left with 5mm. So that seems to be OK.

The engine was built by Bill at SA and maybe he was just taking precautions.

Paul

[blykins]

What are you calling a spigot?

A flapping input shaft will definitely wear a front seal out. We just need to see which came first...the chicken or the egg.

Did a bearing fail and cause a leak, or did lack of pilot support cause a bearing to fail and then leak.

[FatBoy]

Originally Posted by blykins

What are you calling a spigot?

The plain section at the end of the input shaft and the "base of the spigot" is where it meets the splined section.

With the gearbox out of the car, is the input shaft supposed to have some lateral free ply?

[blykins]

They will have a tiny bit just because of the way the bearing sits in the race. The input shaft bearing retainer shouldn't let it move very far at all though.

[olddog]

I'm thinking that maybe the bell housing is not alligned to the pilot bearing. This would cause wear in the pilot bearing and would be pretty hard on the tranny input shaft seal and bearing.

While its out, give the tranny a good look. Maybe have a shop look at it, if you cannot find anyone experianced to come give it a look. The front bearing could be worn.

PS
You need to make certain that the bell housing is aligned propperly to the pilot bearing, before it goes back together. I'm no expert, but I don't think pilot bearings wear out very often, unless something is wrong.

[RICK LAKE]

Fat Boy Paul before you reinstall your trans, Like said above, make sure that the bell housing is centered on the motor. Mine was .038" with all new parts. The other thing is I see 2 bushings. Is the inner one a roller bearing? Hard to tell with the pictures. How many miles are on this car? Even if you beat on it hard the input should have little play unless the input bearing is worn. This will also kill the seal for the input shaft and cause and oil leak. Again a fast way to kill a clutch assembly. IMO if you are not 100% sure on the trans, go and get a new bearing and input shaft seal. Check the bell housing for being true to the crank. Now measure the input shaft to the bottom of the bushings and see the numbers. You want nice fit. Did you buy this motor with all new parts? I too think that the end of the crankshaft has been altered. I have not seen this kind of pilot setup in a long time, this was done when cranks where damaged and reused with shifter cars. I have a whole box of bushings and spacers for cranks in the old days. Barry may have done the same thing if racing a 4 speed car. Rick L. Ps recheck everything please.