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-   -   Any Valvoline users running solid flat tappets? (http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/fe-talk/102710-any-valvoline-users-running-solid-flat-tappets.html)

dcdoug 02-11-2010 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins (Post 1027984)

It's all too easy for someone to buy a perfectly good engine, take it home, break in the cam unsuccessfully, then ruin an engine builder's reputation on internet forums.
Risk seems to be quite a bit less if you break in the cam for your customers. I had my builder do that - in fact he pretty much insisted that was the way he preferred it.

One obvious reason to go with a SFT is authenticity. Some people care about it, some don't. It adds to the experience of ownership for me.

I will say it was nice to see everyone play their positions so well on this thread. Reassures me that none of the planets are out of alignment. :rolleyes:

patrickt 02-11-2010 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcdoug (Post 1028007)
Risk seems to be quite a bit less if you break in the cam for your customers. I had my builder do that - in fact he pretty much insisted that was the way he preferred it.

One obvious reason to go with a SFT is authenticity. Some people care about it, some don't. It adds to the experience of ownership for me.

I will say it was nice to see everyone play their positions so well on this thread. Reassures me that none of the planets are out of alignment. :rolleyes:
Of course, but Brent has gone to bed so I've got to quit bashing him. But his position of refusing to install a solid flat tappet, under any condition, and for any amount of money, just seems a little "over the top" to me.:rolleyes:

dcdoug 02-11-2010 06:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt (Post 1028008)
Of course, but Brent has gone to bed so I've got to quit bashing him. But his position of refusing to install a solid flat tappet, under any condition, and for any amount of money, just seems a little "over the top" to me.:rolleyes:
Maybe his lawyer recommends against it. It's always the lawyers that ruin the fun....:p

patrickt 02-11-2010 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcdoug (Post 1028010)
Maybe his lawyer recommends against it. It's always the lawyers that ruin the fun....:p
Ain't that the truth.

ERA Chas 02-11-2010 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt (Post 1028008)
Of course, but Brent has gone to bed so I've got to quit bashing him. But his position of refusing to install a solid flat tappet, under any condition, and for any amount of money, just seems a little "over the top" to me.:rolleyes:
It's not-for the very reason I stated.

Stories about broke motors never include the information that the customer insisted the builder to go to +.080 or install a cam he advised against-for any reason. Just "Hey, Blank built an FE that went FUBAR"

Besides, that hat is very becoming on you...:cool:

patrickt 02-11-2010 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas (Post 1028014)
Besides, that hat is very becoming on you...:cool:
That was the slogan of one my favorite haberdashers. "If your hat is not becoming to you, you should be coming to us.";)

ERA Chas 02-11-2010 07:33 PM
You're unique-I don't think too many guys on here or FEF have haberdashers...

patrickt 02-12-2010 06:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas (Post 1028025)
You're unique-I don't think too many guys on here or FEF have haberdashers...
Nor, with only three cuts, could most guys here dissect an equilateral triangle into a square.:cool:

DougD 02-12-2010 07:10 AM
I can't believe you guys let him get by with the 40hp quote. Same cam, same specs, just a roller lifter vs a flat tappet give you 40 more hp. My BS buzzer just went off.....

patrickt 02-12-2010 07:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougD (Post 1028128)
I can't believe you guys let him get by with the 40hp quote. Same cam, same specs, just a roller lifter vs a flat tappet give you 40 more hp. My BS buzzer just went off.....
I didn't want to distract the thread from my main point detailing Brent's irrational fear of installing a solid flat tappet cam for any reason, under any circumstances, and at any price. Likewise, I don't want to distract ERAChas with euclidean geometry. :rolleyes:

ERA Chas 02-12-2010 07:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougD (Post 1028128)
I can't believe you guys let him get by with the 40hp quote. Same cam, same specs, just a roller lifter vs a flat tappet give you 40 more hp. My BS buzzer just went off.....
I regularly saw 18 to 25 HP improvement with same spec cams on DTS dynos. SBF, SBC and BBC up to 600HP builds. Juice rollers, were SOP from 600-650HP builds and soild rollers the only choice from there to 1100HP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickt (Post 1028129)
Likewise, I don't want to distract ERAChas with euclidean geometry. :rolleyes:
Actually, you're more entertaining than the rodeo clowns
that normally distract me...:)

patrickt 02-12-2010 07:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ERA Chas (Post 1028137)
Actually, you're more entertaining than the rodeo clowns that normally distract me...:)
Then you should love this:

http://208.255.159.239/haberdasher.gif

lovehamr 02-12-2010 08:03 AM
I guess anyone who still is searching for a haberdashery and has fun with “Euclidean” geometry should have a flat tappet cam. After all, assuming a small set of intuitively appealing axioms, and deducing many other propositions from these would be the very essence of Euclid himself and would lock that person solidly into a pre-theory of general relativity era. Right where a non-roller type needs to be! You know, ignoring gravitational fields and so forth with the strength of a dino-motor! :LOL:

blykins 02-14-2010 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougD (Post 1028128)
I can't believe you guys let him get by with the 40hp quote. Same cam, same specs, just a roller lifter vs a flat tappet give you 40 more hp. My BS buzzer just went off.....
Doug, search some other forums if you want to get a second opinion. You can probably search this one as well, I think I've heard Keith Craft say the same thing.

The key here is that you can't really have the EXACT specs between a flat tappet and a roller camshaft. The .050/seat durations and the lifts may be simliar, but the weight of the lifters, the ramps needed at open/close, etc., cause the lobes to be designed differently. The amount of horsepower that you can get from a swap can be significant.

DougD 02-18-2010 11:01 AM
Brent
I'm no expert. Wouldn't even think of building my own FE. I'm just bustin' your balls. I look forward to your posts, and consider you an expert.

And I know you can't get two cams exactly alike, one for a flat tappet, and one for a roller. Which is why my BS buzzer went off. Ya can't make that claim, 'cause it's not possible. But there will be those who try to convince me......

patrickt 02-18-2010 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougD (Post 1029981)
Brent
I'm no expert. Wouldn't even think of building my own FE. I'm just bustin' your balls....
Brent's a good fella, he's just skittish on solid flat tappets. You know, I had a dog once that was afraid of balloons. I have no idea why, it's not like a balloon ever hurt him (or even could), but if you blew up a balloon and tossed it up in the air, man, that dog was gone. Scared to death he was. It never made any sense to me, so I quit thinking about it. Yep -- I never was able to change that dog, and I doubt I'll ever be able to change Brent either.:cool: But that's ok, he was a good dog.

blykins 02-18-2010 11:23 AM
Patrick,

Even dogs have common sense. Maybe he popped one once with his teeth? :LOL:

I will let you in on a little secret. I'm building a 357 Cleveland for my Mustang toy...guess what kind of cam it's getting? It is a budget rebuild though, until next winter rolls around and it gets a set of CHI heads and a long arm.

It will get weak valve springs, 1.2:1 rockers, Joe Gibbs oil, and plenty of cam lube for break-in on the dyno. I'll still have my fingers crossed, but if she goes, she goes....and it's not a customer motor, so I don't have to worry about it.

patrickt 02-18-2010 11:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins (Post 1029986)
I will let you in on a little secret. I'm building a 357 Cleveland for my Mustang toy...guess what kind of cam it's getting?
Well I'm guessing it's a SFT. And I'm proud of you, too. ;)

blykins 02-18-2010 11:30 AM
No, a solid roller.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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Just kidding. ;-)

This was a complete 4V closed chamber motor that I got for $250. ;-) It will be some cheap fun for the summer, bored/honed with torque plates, valve job, crank polish, new rings, bearings, single plane intake, and an el-cheapo custom grind flat tappet cam.

Going in front of a 5-speed and a 4.30 rear gear. Should be fun.

Next year it will get a real cam. ;-)

patrickt 02-18-2010 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins (Post 1029989)
Just kidding. ;-)
Dang, almost burst my balloon there....


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