Any Valvoline users running solid flat tappets?

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by blykins

It's all too easy for someone to buy a perfectly good engine, take it home, break in the cam unsuccessfully, then ruin an engine builder's reputation on internet forums.

Risk seems to be quite a bit less if you break in the cam for your customers. I had my builder do that - in fact he pretty much insisted that was the way he preferred it.

One obvious reason to go with a SFT is authenticity. Some people care about it, some don't. It adds to the experience of ownership for me.

I will say it was nice to see everyone play their positions so well on this thread. Reassures me that none of the planets are out of alignment.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Risk seems to be quite a bit less if you break in the cam for your customers. I had my builder do that - in fact he pretty much insisted that was the way he preferred it.

One obvious reason to go with a SFT is authenticity. Some people care about it, some don't. It adds to the experience of ownership for me.

I will say it was nice to see everyone play their positions so well on this thread. Reassures me that none of the planets are out of alignment.

Of course, but Brent has gone to bed so I've got to quit bashing him. But his position of refusing to install a solid flat tappet, under any condition, and for any amount of money, just seems a little "over the top" to me.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Of course, but Brent has gone to bed so I've got to quit bashing him. But his position of refusing to install a solid flat tappet, under any condition, and for any amount of money, just seems a little "over the top" to me.

Maybe his lawyer recommends against it. It's always the lawyers that ruin the fun....

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Maybe his lawyer recommends against it. It's always the lawyers that ruin the fun....

Ain't that the truth.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Of course, but Brent has gone to bed so I've got to quit bashing him. But his position of refusing to install a solid flat tappet, under any condition, and for any amount of money, just seems a little "over the top" to me.

It's not-for the very reason I stated.

Stories about broke motors never include the information that the customer insisted the builder to go to +.080 or install a cam he advised against-for any reason. Just "Hey, Blank built an FE that went FUBAR"

Besides, that hat is very becoming on you...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Besides, that hat is very becoming on you...

That was the slogan of one my favorite haberdashers. "If your hat is not becoming to you, you should be coming to us."

[ERA Chas]

You're unique-I don't think too many guys on here or FEF have haberdashers...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

You're unique-I don't think too many guys on here or FEF have haberdashers...

Nor, with only three cuts, could most guys here dissect an equilateral triangle into a square.

[DougD]

I can't believe you guys let him get by with the 40hp quote. Same cam, same specs, just a roller lifter vs a flat tappet give you 40 more hp. My BS buzzer just went off.....

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by DougD

I can't believe you guys let him get by with the 40hp quote. Same cam, same specs, just a roller lifter vs a flat tappet give you 40 more hp. My BS buzzer just went off.....

I didn't want to distract the thread from my main point detailing Brent's irrational fear of installing a solid flat tappet cam for any reason, under any circumstances, and at any price. Likewise, I don't want to distract ERAChas with euclidean geometry.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by DougD

I can't believe you guys let him get by with the 40hp quote. Same cam, same specs, just a roller lifter vs a flat tappet give you 40 more hp. My BS buzzer just went off.....

I regularly saw 18 to 25 HP improvement with same spec cams on DTS dynos. SBF, SBC and BBC up to 600HP builds. Juice rollers, were SOP from 600-650HP builds and soild rollers the only choice from there to 1100HP.

Originally Posted by patrickt

Likewise, I don't want to distract ERAChas with euclidean geometry.

Actually, you're more entertaining than the rodeo clowns
that normally distract me...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Actually, you're more entertaining than the rodeo clowns that normally distract me...

Then you should love this:

[lovehamr]

I guess anyone who still is searching for a haberdashery and has fun with “Euclidean” geometry should have a flat tappet cam. After all, assuming a small set of intuitively appealing axioms, and deducing many other propositions from these would be the very essence of Euclid himself and would lock that person solidly into a pre-theory of general relativity era. Right where a non-roller type needs to be! You know, ignoring gravitational fields and so forth with the strength of a dino-motor!

[blykins]

Originally Posted by DougD

I can't believe you guys let him get by with the 40hp quote. Same cam, same specs, just a roller lifter vs a flat tappet give you 40 more hp. My BS buzzer just went off.....

Doug, search some other forums if you want to get a second opinion. You can probably search this one as well, I think I've heard Keith Craft say the same thing.

The key here is that you can't really have the EXACT specs between a flat tappet and a roller camshaft. The .050/seat durations and the lifts may be simliar, but the weight of the lifters, the ramps needed at open/close, etc., cause the lobes to be designed differently. The amount of horsepower that you can get from a swap can be significant.

[DougD]

Brent
I'm no expert. Wouldn't even think of building my own FE. I'm just bustin' your balls. I look forward to your posts, and consider you an expert.

And I know you can't get two cams exactly alike, one for a flat tappet, and one for a roller. Which is why my BS buzzer went off. Ya can't make that claim, 'cause it's not possible. But there will be those who try to convince me......

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by DougD

Brent
I'm no expert. Wouldn't even think of building my own FE. I'm just bustin' your balls....

Brent's a good fella, he's just skittish on solid flat tappets. You know, I had a dog once that was afraid of balloons. I have no idea why, it's not like a balloon ever hurt him (or even could), but if you blew up a balloon and tossed it up in the air, man, that dog was gone. Scared to death he was. It never made any sense to me, so I quit thinking about it. Yep -- I never was able to change that dog, and I doubt I'll ever be able to change Brent either. But that's ok, he was a good dog.

[blykins]

Patrick,

Even dogs have common sense. Maybe he popped one once with his teeth?

I will let you in on a little secret. I'm building a 357 Cleveland for my Mustang toy...guess what kind of cam it's getting? It is a budget rebuild though, until next winter rolls around and it gets a set of CHI heads and a long arm.

It will get weak valve springs, 1.2:1 rockers, Joe Gibbs oil, and plenty of cam lube for break-in on the dyno. I'll still have my fingers crossed, but if she goes, she goes....and it's not a customer motor, so I don't have to worry about it.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

I will let you in on a little secret. I'm building a 357 Cleveland for my Mustang toy...guess what kind of cam it's getting?

Well I'm guessing it's a SFT. And I'm proud of you, too.

[blykins]

No, a solid roller.
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Just kidding. ;-)

This was a complete 4V closed chamber motor that I got for $250. ;-) It will be some cheap fun for the summer, bored/honed with torque plates, valve job, crank polish, new rings, bearings, single plane intake, and an el-cheapo custom grind flat tappet cam.

Going in front of a 5-speed and a 4.30 rear gear. Should be fun.

Next year it will get a real cam. ;-)

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

Just kidding. ;-)

Dang, almost burst my balloon there....