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02-10-2010, 08:17 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bethesda,
MD
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 6022, navy blue, period correct 427 SO
Posts: 2,154
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Not Ranked
Any Valvoline users running solid flat tappets?
If you are, you might want to re-think that choice.
I just got my Valvoline 20w-50 tested. One test for virgin oil, one test for used oil (about 300 miles on it). In both cases, the Zinc and Phosphorous numbers are way too low. 
The results are attached. That's to Patrick for suggesting I get it tested. I am switching to Brad Penn 20w-50.
Edit: PM me with your email if you want the PDF version of this report. I couldn't get it to upload a PDF.
__________________
“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”
www.partskeeper.com
(Less time searching, more time wrenching & driving)
Last edited by dcdoug; 02-10-2010 at 08:19 PM..
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02-10-2010, 08:29 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Cobra Make, Engine: A CSX Cobra,1966 GT350 and an '06 Ford Heritage GT
Posts: 1,829
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Not Ranked
Is that the All-Climate or the Racing?
__________________
"I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious." Thomas Jefferson
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02-10-2010, 08:29 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,012
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Not Ranked
This should help...
For those of you that have snow blindness, here are the numbers of the VOA:
Last edited by patrickt; 11-02-2016 at 12:30 PM..
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02-10-2010, 09:50 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: California,
Ca
Cobra Make, Engine: NAF 289 Slabside Early Comp Car with 289 Webers and all the goodies. Cancelling the efforts of several Priuses
Posts: 6,592
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Not Ranked
It was my understanding that the Zinc and Phosphorus were best in the vicinity of 1200+ PPM ???? Is the above for the Off Road Only??
__________________
Rick
As you slide down the Banister of Life, may the splinters never be pointing the wrong way 
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02-10-2010, 11:05 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Driftwood,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary Cobra, 427 side oiler
Posts: 1,850
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Not Ranked
That cannot be Valvoline VR Racing Oil. I don't have the Blackstone report handy but when my break-in test results came back by Zinc was something like 1230 ppm. |
02-10-2010, 11:18 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Colorado Springs,
CO
Cobra Make, Engine: Backdraft, supercharged Coyote
Posts: 2,452
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Not Ranked
Pretty much all on-road motor oils are now low ZDDP formulas. Even the diesel oils have been cut by about 25%. There are a couple of oils that have a higher number, but they're not approved for on road use. Those oils can be a little bit difficult to come by, and expensive.
I good alternative is to get a ZDDP additive and pour it in with every oil change. For my diesel with flat tappets, I use the stuff from Comp Cams. Add it to the oil change. No need to spend that much money for my diesel pick up. I have heard that STP is ZDDP in an oil base, but have not been able to find proof of that.
Keep in mind, this only matters if your engine has non-roller tappets/lifters; solid or hydraulic. |
02-11-2010, 03:57 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: E BRUNSWICK N.J. USA,
Posts: 3,841
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Not Ranked
Have run 20-50 race for years before going to Quaker or Rotella
dcdoug We used racing Valvo 20-50 for years until about 7 years ago with solid lifter motors. After that I started running either 15-50w or 15-40w oils. Either Quaker state or Rotella has been in the motor on the cobra since day one. There have been some other things added to this. 1 bottle of EOS from GM and 1 Bottle of Lucas oil suppliment. The lucas needs to have hot oil to blend with and a slow pour. My accusump works as a pre oiler and have no dry startups. We have beaten this part to death. I pull the pan every year and cut open the oil filters. Bearings are fine. Going to add a Magnet for the oil filter. Have a couple of guys that do this. You would not beleive the small metal partials that get through the filters. This catches them and holds them. Doug IMO any good additive with zinc and phosphorus is going to help extend the life of any motor. IMO the big things are dry startups and not letting the motor warn up before going on the drive. Coolant temp may be 180f but the oil is still around 110-115f. The car running thermostats to help heat the oil, that is a plus. Doug the other thing that effect solid lifters is the valve lash. A little too tight and you could burnt valves or have piston to valve hits. Too loose and you have valve train wear problems. I know guys like solids, I did years ago when being under the hood every weekend was a normal thing, but getting too old and hydro roller are now the in thing and working just fine. They also limit the rpms of the motor and extend the life of it, imo. Rick L.
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02-11-2010, 05:01 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Jose CA,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: SPF_R_/BRG/FRBoss302/327CI/FordEFI/Under_Car_Exh/
Posts: 2,523
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Not Ranked
We have seen this recently; you have to read the ratings on the container. Engine oil has evolved in good and bad ways over the last 40 years.
Most of this ‘updating” to oil formulations has been since 1993.
The oiling needs of the modern roller engines differ from the cleave bearing Flathead Ford V8, Y block , FE, and early Windsor.
When the last performance Windsor engines were produced by Ford, the oil of choice was a specified API standard *SG* for the ’93 to ’95 cars.
Current motor oil has to walk a tight-rope as compared to years past, it hast to reduce friction and deal with semi exotic metals, high temperatures, etc.
Zinc was reduced due to the life reducing damage caused to Catalytic converters and oxygen sensors in the combustion and exhaust gas clearing process.
You know that your dear friends at the EPA are VERY interested in extending the life of a Catalytic converter to 120K+ miles.
API SG oil uses zinc (ZDDP) as an anti-wear additive.
Note: Maximum phosphorus content per the API standard:
SG .12%
SM .08%
Look at the API notes on the container. -- it may be there on the fine print.
I think we are all in for specialty oils from now on as the API and the EPA keep messing with formulation.
Steve
__________________
Steve SPF 2734 MK3 / Brock Coupe #54- panavia.com
Last edited by PANAVIA; 02-11-2010 at 05:04 AM..
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02-11-2010, 06:05 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bethesda,
MD
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 6022, navy blue, period correct 427 SO
Posts: 2,154
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Not Ranked
This was the on-road Valvoline, so maybe I made a rookie mistake by not using the racing Valvoline, but I thought I'd share my mistake with others. Needless to say I will be switching.....
__________________
“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”
www.partskeeper.com
(Less time searching, more time wrenching & driving)
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02-11-2010, 06:36 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Shasta Lake,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 26,597
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Not Ranked
Doug,
I ran the Valvoline racing oil in my big block for about 10 years before I had some work done to it and the builder used another racing oil so I am staying with that.
Ron  |
02-11-2010, 06:42 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2000
Location: Northern VA,
VA
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Roadsters
Posts: 2,765
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Not Ranked
ZDDP Plus
If u get this stuff, u can use any oil you like and still have the high levels of ZDDP.
http://www.eastwood.com/zddp-plus-oi...e-4-fl-oz.html
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__________________
LIFE IS TOO SHORT TO WORRY ABOUT GOOD GAS MILEAGE
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Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!
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02-11-2010, 08:15 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Driftwood,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary Cobra, 427 side oiler
Posts: 1,850
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Not Ranked
I switched to Brad Penn shortly after break-in, largely due to Patrick's experience with it and further research I did. Its cheaper than Valvoline (call American Refining and ask for your local dealer), its available in a wider variety of weights and you don't have to worry with an additive. This is what was orginally Kendall GT-1 Racing Oil. Oh, and if your FE likes pissing on the floor, its easy to spot a leak because its greeeeeen.
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02-11-2010, 08:32 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,417
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Not Ranked
That's why all my customer engines get roller cams. I don't have to mess with this crap.....or cam break-in's. For the extra $200-300, you bypass the worry and get a little more power to boot.
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02-11-2010, 12:04 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Bethesda,
MD
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 6022, navy blue, period correct 427 SO
Posts: 2,154
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmariachi
Oh, and if your FE likes pissing on the floor, its easy to spot a leak because its greeeeeen.
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My FE resembles that remark - still! But I'll get it sorted. Be nice to be able to better trace green snot than golden brown.
__________________
“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”
www.partskeeper.com
(Less time searching, more time wrenching & driving)
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02-11-2010, 01:00 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,012
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins
That's why all my customer engines get roller cams. I don't have to mess with this crap.....or cam break-in's. For the extra $200-300, you bypass the worry and get a little more power to boot.
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It's actually kind of fun sending your oil sample off and waiting for the test results to see if you have an abundance of iron from a slowly wiping lobe. It takes you back to the days when the exam results would be posted up in the hallway of the school... ahhh, that trepidation, that anticipation; yep, it adds to the mystique of owning a solid flat tappet cam. No matter what oil you use, or what additive you mix in, you just never know what those Zinc/Phos numbers are going to be until you get that little PDF report from the lab. Yessirreee, I love it.  |
02-11-2010, 01:03 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Driftwood,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary Cobra, 427 side oiler
Posts: 1,850
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins
That's why all my customer engines get roller cams. I don't have to mess with this crap.....or cam break-in's.
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Your transmission and clutch knowledge is excellent, but you don't know crap about antiques. 
Last edited by elmariachi; 02-11-2010 at 01:06 PM..
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02-11-2010, 01:11 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,417
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Not Ranked
Hey now, I've built and owned some FE's in my time.....I'm even building a Cleveland right now....  |
02-11-2010, 01:21 PM
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Half-Ass Member
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Cobra Make, Engine: ERA #732, 428FE (447 CID), TKO600, Solid Flat Tappet Cam, Tons of Aluminum
Posts: 22,012
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins
Hey now, I've built and owned some FE's in my time.....I'm even building a Cleveland right now.... |
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's all in the past-tense. What have you done for us lately? |
02-11-2010, 01:28 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Louisville,
KY
Cobra Make, Engine: I'm Cobra-less!
Posts: 9,417
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Not Ranked
Hmmm....a 489ci BBC for a '65 Chevy pickup, a 347 SBF for a local 1/8th mile drag racer....you know, the "normal" stuff.
I'm still good on my FE stuff though....quiz me. |
02-11-2010, 01:34 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Driftwood,
TX
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary Cobra, 427 side oiler
Posts: 1,850
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Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by blykins
I'm still good on my FE stuff though....quiz me. |
Okay, what does "FE" stand for?
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