Aftermarket Aluminum FE Blocks

[ERA Chas]

Myth busted...

[undy]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Myth busted...

Nope, now we need to run it with no oil and a 500hp shot of Nauzzzzzzz. We'll get that puppy to fail.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by undy

Nope, now we need to run it with no oil and a 500hp shot of Nauzzzzzzz. We'll get that puppy to fail.

Yup-those asses have to blow up EVERYTHING in the end-busted or not.

[RodKnock]

So, there's no one out there with a real life FE aluminum block that has traveled 8,000-10,000 miles. It may take me 5 years before I can rack up that kind of mileage. Now I hope to break that mileage barrier as quickly as possible.

[FUNFER2]

Like with boat engines built with different metals, should we use a sacrificial anode ? (maybe in the radiator)

[rodneym]

C'mon, RodKnock. Let's get some clarity here.
SAAC forum...dogs aluminum...pugnacious post...
He probably takes iron supplements so his blood can rust.

[RICK LAKE]

Rodknock Some one on the SCCA forum is either getting jerked around or just doesn't know anything about motors. LS motors from GM, we are told they should last a min of 200,000 miles, this is gas. Duramax is a 300-500K milage motor with the correct maintainance being done.
I have 12 years of racing of SCX#58. It is on the 2nd build. I went from a 452 motor to 482 stroker. The leak down was 5% on 7 cylinders and 7-8% on cylinder that has a scratch in it before honing. This cylinder is back to 5%. This is a race motor built for endurance and torque, not 700HP. Max rpm is 6,500. I see no problems with cylinder or core shift in this block.
I don't quite understand the over maintainance by Jack? Oil and filter get changed every 3rd race. The car gets autocross, roadracing and some 1/4 mile. It gets ABUSED HARD. I have a 12 quart oiling system in the car 8 in the oil pan, 1 in the lines and cooler and 3 in the accusump for preoiling and high "G" turns to maintain good oil pressure. HVHP oil pump with 100 psi spring. Racing pressures are 70-80 psi. This motor needs and like alot of oil flowing. 15W-40 11 quarts, 1 bottle of EOS and Lucas oil suppliment.
Demending on the Al;uminum block you are talking about, (5) different ones I have heard of over the years. Shelby is the strongest for design and strength. Every thing is tighted into the main cap area. HP rating on this block is over 2,200 hp. the others are in the 1,300-1,500. This is more than enough for most people and cars. Shelby block also cost 1K more that the others.
Does a aluminum motor need to be rebuilt in 8-10K miles,,,,,,,,,,,maybe if heavy abused and overheated a couple of times. No oil changes. A leak down check is the easiest way to check a motor for how good the compression and valves are. I would say no to this question. Motors live and breath more so in Alumium than iron. Rick L

[Woodz428]

I understand the reasoning for the question and think the comparisons to the Mod motor or Late model Chebby stock engines are irrelevant to that. I think both of those engines underwent substantial high mileage testing, because the mfg's have to warranty their stuff. Something that is probably unlikely with any aftermarket Aluminum block, most I've seen only warranty against mfg. defects. If for no other reason than the number of variables involved. Once you assemble it and add your parts, they are pretty much in the clear, it could be attributed to any number of things other than just the block. I could expound on the amount of miles some of the bike engines that I serviced over the years achieved, but that is hardly applicable. I feel the same way about the comparison to new factory engines.
I'm a big FE fan, but have avoided any aluminum block because of shortage of longterm info. For me, the little extra weight isn't as much of a concern.

[4pipes]

My block has 12,000 miles on it. It's been rebuilt for reasons not attributable to the block. The only issue I know of with the Shelby block is liner movement. According to my builder, they can move axially with temperature cycling. My block was never decked until now and some liners were up or down by about .003 preventing a flat sealing surface for the heads. Common practice is to attach steel torque plates to new blocks for a couple of days to stabilize the liners, then decking them.

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Woodz428

I understand the reasoning for the question and think the comparisons to the Mod motor or Late model Chebby stock engines are irrelevant to that. I think both of those engines underwent substantial high mileage testing, because the mfg's have to warranty their stuff. Something that is probably unlikely with any aftermarket Aluminum block, most I've seen only warranty against mfg. defects. If for no other reason than the number of variables involved. Once you assemble it and add your parts, they are pretty much in the clear, it could be attributed to any number of things other than just the block. I could expound on the amount of miles some of the bike engines that I serviced over the years achieved, but that is hardly applicable. I feel the same way about the comparison to new factory engines.
I'm a big FE fan, but have avoided any aluminum block because of shortage of longterm info. For me, the little extra weight isn't as much of a concern.

My reason to point at the aluminum Modulars is basically that aluminum can be used sucessfully, if done right. However the devel is always in the details. You are correct to point out this proves nothing on the FE blocks. A lot of differances between an FE and a modular. Overhead cam verses lifters and pushrods. The size differance matters too. The coeffecient of thermal expansion is multiplied times the distance, so a longer block will grow more than a short one over the same temp change. With than said I still doubt an aluminum FE is goint to wear something out in less than 10K miles, because it is aluminum. However if the engineering is wrong, a lot of bad things could happen.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by olddog

The coeffecient of thermal expansion is multiplied times the distance, so a longer block will grow more than a short one over the same temp change.

Absolutely true. Those with an aluminum FE block and aluminum heads, coupled with a solid flat tappet cam, actually have to set their valves to a negative lash value.

[slider701]

This article on Jalopnik sheds a little light on what Ford's SVT group had to do to make the 2011 GT500 aluminum block live through a production durability cycle while still making 550 HP, 22 MPG, and meet emissions for 250K miles

http://jalopnik.com/5467038/the-ford...he-nissan-gt+r

[Woodz428]

[quote=4pipes;1032137]
My block has 12,000 miles on it. It's been rebuilt for reasons not attributable to the block. The only issue I know of with the Shelby block is liner movement. According to my builder, they can move axially with temperature cycling. My block was never decked until now and some liners were up or down by about .003 preventing a flat sealing surface for the heads. QUOTE]

Regardless if it was rebuilt for those issues those ARE block issues and would have likely created burning coolant,hydraulic lock or even worse. For what ever reason it was rebuilt you probably dodged a hell of a bullet. For the extra K's that was mentioned that those blocks cost, seems like the buyer is getting the shortend of the stick if they have to be corrected. I think it is relevant to the OP's question. Sounds like if the procedure you describe, with torque plates and decking, wasn't done in the original build that he may have to rebuild at 10K. If I had that kind of money in an engine and knew that IS a problem, the amount that I'd save in the long run would make a 10K teardown and re-machine( re-machine a new high dollar block???) pretty cheap. If you've never seen a hydrauliced engine, that was running some rpm's, it is ugly. I have some schrapnel in the shop I use just for illustration purposes. Rods bend like licorice, but with a much more expensive effect.

[4pipes]

Mine hydraulic locked because of an intake gasket failure, not a head gasket failure, but I agree with you. It makes sense to me to purchase these engines from professionals that have assembled many of them.

[maurice19]

Rod,

M Shelby block has over 13,000 miles on it and still runs great but , I had the same problem that Dave just mentioned at 2500 miles

Maurice

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by maurice19

Rod,

M Shelby block has over 13,000 miles on it and still runs great but , I had the same problem that Dave just mentioned at 2500 miles

Maurice

Well, then, maybe the guy over at the SAAC Forum is right. 8,000-10,000 is about it? Machining with any block is important, but even more critical with an aluminum block it sounds.

It would be great if Keith Craft could chime in and hear his longevity (or lack thereof) stories with the CSX, Genesis and Pond aluminum blocks.

[maurice19]

I should have been more specific when I said I had a problem.

My liners checked out ok and the only problem was the intake gasket leak on # 5, I believe ,and that was early on.

Maurice

[eschaider]

I heard aluminum blocks begin to become radioactive at 1500 miles unless you are running 91 octane then they start to become radioactive at 786 miles. By the time they have 3500 miles on them the whole car is radioactive - which in a way is an advantage because they are easy to find at night in the parking lot if you forget where you parked. You just look for the soft blue glow and presto!

The Yucca Mountain complex has a special parking lot for Cobra's with aluminum blocks, so safe storage is always available.

There is also some concern about the aluminum attracting interdimensional and transdimensional beings from an alternate universe, which of course is always problematic.

Well that's about all I heard. Time for another adult beverage ...


Ed

p.s. That other joker that's been pissing on your block probably had too many adult beverages (hic) you shouldn't let him near your car that stuff is corrosive!

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

It would be great if Keith Craft could chime in and hear his longevity (or lack thereof) stories with the CSX, Genesis and Pond aluminum blocks.

And what would he have to gain by doing that? If he posts anything on this I doubt it will be negative.

He sells a lot of aluminum FE engines and I suspect he would prefer to keep it that way.

[601HP]

Originally Posted by Stentor

And what would he have to gain by doing that? If he posts anything on this I doubt it will be negative.

He sells a lot of aluminum FE engines and I suspect he would prefer to keep it that way.

Let's see which way he goes with a response.

I've spoken with him a couple of times and made a few purchases from him. He seemed to be "up front" with his information.

David