Valve lash questions - Page 2

dcdoug · #21 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 02:33 PM

Yes, I have the cam card. Here it is:

patrickt · #22 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Yes, I have the cam card. Here it is:

Your overlap at .050 is 30 degrees (just add IVO and EVC). In contrast, my overlap at .050 is 17 degrees. Your other numbers are not really seat-to-seat, they're a little bit up from that, so you can't compare them to mine, but I'm pretty sure I remember the "B" cam to have 112 degrees overlap seat to seat.

EDIT -- of more interest, though, is the fact that your intake center line is 105 and your lobe separation angle is 106. Your builder probably installed the cam with the key in the 2 degree advanced slot and it measured out at 1 degree advanced. Now, let's see if ol' Chas can explain the math....

RodKnock · #23 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

EDIT -- of more interest, though, is the fact that your intake center line is 105 and your lobe separation angle is 106. Your builder probably installed the cam with the key in the 2 degree advanced slot and it measured out at 1 degree advanced. Now, let's see if ol' Chas can explain the math....

106-105 = 1?

dcdoug · #24 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 03:55 PM

I'm definitely a little confused, but hey, that's what being a rookie and learning about my FE is all about I guess.

A couple of other questions/clarifications:

-So I can use the method that Patrick described for lash adjustment, right?

-Any tricks for breaking the valve covers loose? I was going to first tap them a bit with a rubber mallet and then if i couldn't get them loose, to pry from the intake manifold side as gently as I can.

-When I reinstall with new gaskets, what's the recommended silicone sealer?

I appreciate the time and advice.

Doug

patrickt · #25 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

106-105 = 1?

No, you must figure out the durations, the center lines, and the lobe separation angle by only using the exhaust numbers 48 and 14 along with the intake numbers 16 and 46. No fair using the LSA and ICL that I calculated for you.

RodKnock · #26 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 04:27 PM

Where's Rick Lake or Chas when you need them?

Way above my pay grade.

patrickt · #27 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Where's Rick Lake or Chas when you need them?

Way above my pay grade.

Could be that Chas misplaced his spectacles again. (And I'm tempted to post a pic of Mr. Magoo here.) More likely that ol' Chas is "mathematically challenged."

dcdoug · #28 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 05:00 PM

While your waiting for Chas, any last comments on these:

A couple of other questions/clarifications:

-So I can use the method that Patrick described for lash adjustment, right?

-Any tricks for breaking the valve covers loose? I was going to first tap them a bit with a rubber mallet and then if i couldn't get them loose, to pry from the intake manifold side as gently as I can.

-When I reinstall with new gaskets, what's the recommended silicone sealer?

dcdoug · #29 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

No, you must figure out the durations, the center lines, and the lobe separation angle by only using the exhaust numbers 48 and 14 along with the intake numbers 16 and 46. No fair using the LSA and ICL that I calculated for you.

Heck, it's my cam card and I'm confused.

patrickt · #30 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

-So I can use the method that Patrick described for lash adjustment, right?

Right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

-Any tricks for breaking the valve covers loose? I was going to first tap them a bit with a rubber mallet and then if i couldn't get them loose, to pry from the intake manifold side as gently as I can.

They will come off pretty easy -- you won't have any trouble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcdoug

-When I reinstall with new gaskets, what's the recommended silicone sealer?

You can seal your gaskets to the valve covers with some goo (I use 3m Weatherstripping to stick my rubber gaskets to the valve covers only) but you don't use anything other than maybe a little grease between the gaskets and the heads. If they leak a little bit after you've lightly torqued them down (5 to 7 ft/lbs), then you can smear a little RTV along the bottom of the covers along the gaskets.

blykins · #31 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 06:04 PM

Easiest way to remember how to run the valves:

Set the intake when the exhaust valve is starting to open. Set the exhaust when the intake valve is starting to close.

Don't use the TDC method. It's not accurate.

Remember that if you set them cold, that the lash will increase when the motor heats up. If you're starting from scratch, set your cold lash about .006" lower than what you want it to be hot.

ERA Chas · #32 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Could be that Chas misplaced his spectacles again. (And I'm tempted to post a pic of Mr. Magoo here.) More likely that ol' Chas is "mathematically challenged."

First I'll deal with you Howdy then I'll help dc get his covers off. You are making another intellectual exercise out of a 450HP combination.

The ICL of 105 is crank degrees. The LSA of 106 Is cam degrees which = 212 degrees of crank rotation. Thus-212-105=107. Installing the cam +2 (crank) degrees means the cam is 1(cam) degree advanced.

I left my Euclidean hat at the haberdasher-but I know that's some pu$$y cams you guys got. And dc is bleeding off a lot of cylinder pressure with 106 LSA-those valves are open a long time together-especially with .501 net lift. A 110 LSA would sharpen-up the bottom end, especially with stock med-risers. It must be noisy but doesn't breathe.

dc- use RightStuff on the cover to gasket and brown axle grease on the gasket to head. It will not leak. Use a 1" wide paint scraper or spackle knife to get between the goo you have now and the head to remove the covers. Clean all surfaces carefully.

Take your time and you'll enjoy the work. If stuck, you could always ask Karnak to explain the Pythagorean Theorem-AGAIN!

patrickt · #33 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

First I'll deal with you Howdy then I'll help dc get his covers off. You are making another intellectual exercise out of a 450HP combination.

The ICL of 105 is crank degrees. The LSA of 106 Is cam degrees which = 212 degrees of crank rotation. Thus-212-105=107. Installing the cam +2 (crank) degrees means the cam is 1(cam) degree advanced.

I left my Euclidean hat at the haberdasher-but I know that's some pu$$y cams you guys got. And dc is bleeding off a lot of cylinder pressure with 106 LSA-those valves are open a long time together-especially with .501 net lift. A 110 LSA would sharpen-up the bottom end, especially with stock med-risers. It must be noisy but doesn't breathe.

dc- use RightStuff on the cover to gasket and brown axle grease on the gasket to head. It will not leak. Use a 1" wide paint scraper or spackle knife to get between the goo you have now and the head to remove the covers. Clean all surfaces carefully.

Take your time and you'll enjoy the work. If stuck, you could always ask Karnak to explain the Pythagorean Theorem-AGAIN!

Partial credit. For full credit, I was looking for this:

Exhaust Duration = 48+14+180 = 242

Exhaust Center Line = (242/2)-14 = 107

Intake Duration = 16+46+180 = 242

Intake Center Line = (242/2)-16 = 105

Lobe Separation Angle = (107+105)/2 = 106

blykins · #34 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 06:24 PM

Are you trying to make up for the pushrod ordeal Patrick?

patrickt · #35 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blykins

Are you trying to make up for the pushrod ordeal Patrick?

Well I did have to eat a healthy portion of crow with that little incident.

dcdoug · #36 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:26 PM

Thanks again guys. Appreciate the help from all of you, including Mr. Magoo and Karnak the Haberdasher.

ERA Chas · #37 (**permalink**) 03-19-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

Partial credit.

I accept that as your UNconditional apology for thinking I was the emperors clothes. I trust they'll be no further schoolboy attempts at cleverness.

But Pat-SERIOUSLY---TO WHAT END???? You have made a sub-atomic examination of your basically 1 HP per CI 447 rebuild. Great. But instead wouldn't you rather get techno-nuts if you made-oh say- 1.3HP/CI? 581HP would be worth all the charts, graphs and equations and helpful to find even more power.

My cam is just starting where yours gets paralyzed. Wouldn't you rather run 11's than pore over data just to give rooks sermons?? Helping guys is great but not giving lessons and homework.

Cruising and waving to the adoring sheep is for losers. Then writing endlessly (10,400+ posts) about it is sad. Get out there and (try to) shred those Yokos!