locking header bolts for big blocks....

[dlotz]

I remember having a lot of issues with the header bolts getting loose when I put long tube headers on my 92 mustang (302).

I am now wondering if you guys are having issues with the header bolts getting loose on the BB with the headers from FFR? The bolts that came with the headers are a little small IMHO.

Is this an issue and if so, what are you guys doing to stop it? There's not a lot of room to get in there and keep tightening bolts if you know what I mean!

Thanks

[Anthony S]

I tried the Stage 8 bolts still had leaking finally went to these http://www.jegs.com/i/Percy%26%23039...21003/10002/-1 they work great.

Anthony

[undy]

Originally Posted by dlotz

I remember having a lot of issues with the header bolts getting loose when I put long tube headers on my 92 mustang (302).

I am now wondering if you guys are having issues with the header bolts getting loose on the BB with the headers from FFR? The bolts that came with the headers are a little small IMHO.

Is this an issue and if so, what are you guys doing to stop it? There's not a lot of room to get in there and keep tightening bolts if you know what I mean!

Thanks

I run "Stage 8" locking header bolts and have not had one header gasket leak since. Everything I own with headers runs the same setup.

Dave

[Tom Wells]

dlotz,

Stage 8 for me too if you need to lock the header bolts.

Under no circumstances should you use the ones with the little allen head screws in the center! I tried them and found out they are the same as a tap, and will tap your heads to a larger size if you ever have to remove them

Tom

[Ronbo]

Make sure you get the ones with the teardrop lock tab as the bolts are pretty far from the tubes.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STG-8952/ (stainless)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STG-8912A/ (nickel plated)


Retorque them after a couple runs (the gasket will shrink after a few heat cycles) and then forget about ever having to fool with blown out header gaskets again.

If you want a vintage look, safety wire with drilled heads.

[jetsbaby]

Originally Posted by Anthony S

I tried the Stage 8 bolts still had leaking finally went to these http://www.jegs.com/i/Percy%26%23039...21003/10002/-1 they work great.

Anthony

Also have these and they work great..I also have their header gaskets..

[undy]

With regards to the "split bolt" design ... I had used a set of them, made by Breslin in my case. They repeatedly loosened up, The center set screws also seized up. A couple would not contract and I was forced to back them out expanded. As mentioned in an earlier post, it resulted in severe thread gauling on a aluminum head small block Chebby that I had in a work truck.

[RICK LAKE]

dlotz D any chance of getting a first name? I have used allen head bolts with safety wire on them and have had not problems. This is for all motors. I also use any sieze on the bolts. The 2 inside bolts on the first and last tube get hex bolts that are also wired. You can wire above or below depending on the look you want to see. Pliers, wire and drill plate to drill each bolt. You also have to remember that running an aluminum head there is alot of expansion and contraction with a heat cycle. It is easy for the bolts to come loose. I tryed studs in the heads and nuts with scrated backs. They chewed up the header flanges and the nuts came loose after each heat cycle. I use cotter pins to keep the nuts from falling off the motor. Some guys have good luck with LOC-TITE hi temp hi strength. You may need to customize a wrench to get the inner bolts torqued to spec. Rick L. Ps what every way you go, DON'T install the bolts without a antiseize if the heads are aluminum. I would do this with steel too.

[dlotz]

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

dlotz D any chance of getting a first name? I have used allen head bolts with safety wire on them and have had not problems. This is for all motors. I also use any sieze on the bolts. The 2 inside bolts on the first and last tube get hex bolts that are also wired. You can wire above or below depending on the look you want to see. Pliers, wire and drill plate to drill each bolt. You also have to remember that running an aluminum head there is alot of expansion and contraction with a heat cycle. It is easy for the bolts to come loose. I tryed studs in the heads and nuts with scrated backs. They chewed up the header flanges and the nuts came loose after each heat cycle. I use cotter pins to keep the nuts from falling off the motor. Some guys have good luck with LOC-TITE hi temp hi strength. You may need to customize a wrench to get the inner bolts torqued to spec. Rick L. Ps what every way you go, DON'T install the bolts without a antiseize if the heads are aluminum. I would do this with steel too.

Rick
I have origional Irton MR heads, and yes I applied antiseize. I too have a mixture of bolts. The lower bolts are shorter that the ARP stainless ones I used on top because they bottom out unlike the top bolts.

I am thinking I will go with the safety wire look.

Does anyone have any pictures of the origionals with safety wire?

[Bill Bess]

Garsh ! I just used a set of SS header bolts form Summit, used SS lock washers in lieu of those little flat washers, 10'000 plus miles, no loose bolts and no leaks.
What am I missing here?

[dlotz]

Originally Posted by Bill Bess

Garsh ! I just used a set of SS header bolts form Summit, used SS lock washers in lieu of those little flat washers, 10'000 plus miles, no loose bolts and no leaks.
What am I missing here?

What gaskets are you using?

I haven't had problems yet because I'm not on the road. I just know I had BIG problems with long tube headers on my 302 years ago. I was just asking if guys were running into this problem and what they did to fix it.

[dlotz]

[quote=RICK LAKE;1034646]dlotz D any chance of getting a first name? QUOTE]

Sorry Rick

name is Dan

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by dlotz

Rick

I am thinking I will go with the safety wire look.

Does anyone have any pictures of the origionals with safety wire?

I don't know if this was "original" but it would be the method for the time. Someone with better knowlage of the history may be able to chime in.

The "look" is more based on the rules of properly saftey wiring the bolts than how someone did it (right or wrong) 45yrs ago. Especially if your pliers can only do a single direction twist.

[Michael C Henry]

I used the Stage 8 but was told to add an(A) to part number and get 1/4" longer bolts 3/4" vs 1" 3/8 x 16. I wanted as much thread contact in my aluminum heads. I also have dual bolt pattern Gallaxy truck over under and fairlane mustang in front and behind. The ends of header flange are missing that bolt hole so I used 14 bolt per side = 2 sets, and I have copper exhaust gaskets. I had to drill and safety wire the center two bolts. Never had any loosen up by them selves. Takes several hours to get all bolts in place, tightened, and locked and wired. sequential tightening procedure do to tight fit and pipe clearences. I can't remember ever using any power tools to install, ever.

[mickmate]

How do you even get at the drivers side lower bolts, never mind to wire or lock them?! With the oil pan, pedal box, footbox etc in the way they are a real bugger.

[Michael C Henry]

As I remember they have 3/8" heads, and I have a lot of wrenches angle head ,box and so on, some home bent and so on. Some of the bolts have to go in a little at a time as you bring the whole bunch in to the head. and you know about annealing the copper gaskets before you install them. Bring em all a little untill tight. Watch the clips, sometimes they fly.

[Jon Miller]

Never had a problem with the header to head bolts. The side pipe to header bolts are a BIG problem. I have lost a few bolts within a few thousand miles which makes for a big exhaust leak all over my nice formerly mirror finish aluminum....

-Jon

[Michael C Henry]

My header flanges are connected to the flat four tube flange that lesds to the to collector with eight bolts and another copper gaskets that I made myself. I went a different route on the collector back, I used Burn's 3 1/2" stainless V flanges and clamps. I had the flanges all tig welded to the collector mufflers and turn out elbows. Before I had the whole bunch ceramic coated. I can remove the mufflers to switch between three different sets of mufflers. I can add or remove a Car Chemistry disc units to the collectors and turn the elbow any direction or even connect elbows directly to my collectors.