FE Intake. Best of all worlds ?

[FUNFER2]

What would be your best of all worlds intake, for a FE and why ?

Brand - Edelbrock
Blue Thunder

427 side oiler/496 cubes

Mechanical roller cam. (somewhere like 650 lift, 260-280 dur., 110-106 lobe sep.)
Single carb.
10:3 - 11:00 compression.
Limit to 6,000-6500 rpm. (I think)
Roller rockers. (maybe T & D)

Street, highway & interstate use. (Tremec 600, alum. Flywheel)

[PANAVIA]

Edelbrock performer RPM, grind off the script, paint it blue, -- its 1966 all over again.

Steve

[undy]

Don't mix mechanical rollers and dual plane singles. It's a mis-match and a half...

[RICK LAKE]

FUNFER2 Kevin it's more important to have ports flow matched. SGT Joe Craine does and excellent job if evening out all the ports on the manifold. There can be a 10-30 cfm different between ports. When SGT. is done it's like around 5 cfm. All cylinders are getting the same A/F. His work looks like it should be on a coffee table instead of under a hood. If you limit the rpms to 6,200, the dual plane with porting will be fine. Looking for a little extra HP in the top end Single plane. Again let Joe port clean the manifold. I run a single plane for my motor but it is a dry manifold. (FI system)

[FUNFER2]

Is the single plane Victor, the choice even with the rating higher in the rpm band ?
Edelbrock catalog- 4,000-8,500 rpm.

Will machining the carb. surface down 1/4" to 3/8" for hood clearance, be detrimental to the tq/hp ?

Just talked to Gessford and they said I'll never feel the difference and doubts under a 1/2" would even be an issue.

[undy]

Go ahead and mill it. You'll probably only lose 10 to 15 HP with the reduced plenum volume. Your air cleaner is more than likely going to cap your power before the mechanical roller comes in anyway.

[RodKnock]

What type of heads?

Mechanical roller will generally want BT heads and BT intake.

[Keithc8]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

What type of heads?

Mechanical roller will generally want BT heads and BT intake.

I guess I have been missing it all along with our Edelbrock CNC heads with a Victor intake making over 800HP. There are several ways to get to the end product and you will also find about as many opinions as well.
I most cases you can take the Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and gasket match it and it will support up to 650 to 675HP on most mild solid roller engines in the 482 C.I. range.
Just did a 482C. I. engine with 10 to 1 compression, street solid roller with 242/248 at .050 duration and about .650 lift on a 112 lobe separation. We used the new Pond Motor sports/ Keith Craft head that we designed the ports on for him. All we did to the heads was bowl port with a little short side work and gasket match. The heads had 2.19/1.75 valves and these new heads are on the original medium riser valve centers. Used the Performer RPM intake gasket matched and the engine made 615 ft/lbs of torque with 625HP on premium pump gas. Idles at 700 rpms and cruises at 1700 rpms if wanted.
Have this engine in the new Kirkham that I just did. Easy to drive for the novice just as long as you do not push the gas to hard and then it gets real fun.

Good luck, Keith Craft

[Barry_R]

Bunch of mixed messages here. I suppose I should add to the collection at some point.

First is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with a mechanical roller and a dual plane combination. The type of lifter is secondary to the cam opening and closing events, and the working RPM range is detrmined by those.

A relatively short duration solid roller cam can be a very potent mid range combination - from 2500-6500 is well within the realm of a good dual plane. They'll usually outpower a hydraulic package at the expense of some added maintenence. A solid flat tappet can match up to them pretty close, but many guys are nervous about the break in isues (justifiably these days).

On intakes the Performer RPM is indeed a good piece with a bit of port matching. Most I've made with one was around 618HP on a 482. A very similar engine with a Victor and a Dominator was within five horsepower - the cam was a limiting factor before the intake. I've made around 660 with an extensively altered BT dual plane but that engine was drastically different.

My preferences are thus:

Performer - OK if you need a cheap intake for your farm truck

Performer RPM - really good from idle to 6500, best feature is low cost for the power

Blue Thunder 4150 - from idle to 6500 comparable or slightly better power than the Ebrock, and looks very original with proper vacuum openings, oil fill and breather provisions, and carb position.

Blue Thunder 4500 - similar to the above but more power. The casting and machining has been revised based on our development work (see the comment about "extensively modified" above).

Victor - either 4150 or Dominator - will definitely make more power than the dual planes at the sacrifice of low/mid range torque. This intake needs porting but is designed for that with runners cast small. The advantages are small if any on smaller/milder applications but greater on wilder & bigger stuff. If you have 700HP dreams you'll eventually end up with a Victor. And a die grinder.

Dove single four - looks completely wrong with a giganourmous plenum - even stupidly large on the high riser/Dominator version. You could put a small block intake inside of there. But actually runs pretty well. Comparable to the Victor in potential but the thin castings don't leave much porting room to change things. If you decide to go with the Dove you'll also want a die grinder along with a welder and a pressure checker....

[FUNFER2]

Those are impressive Keith, for a dual plane, mid numbers cam lift, lobe sep., compression, ect., and not a extreme racing engine. If I could get a pair of Blue Thunder heads for this sponsor build for a great price, I may buy them. I've seen flow bench numbers of over 400. I would prefer them over the Edelbrocks. His intakes are very nice also.

What seat psi are on the springs ?

Like with my last Victor, I had to mill down the carb. surface 1/4"-3/8" for hood clearance. I did not feel a difference though. Do you think 1/2" would be too much and hurting the performance ?
As you both know, that's why the RPM is used by so many Cobra owners.

Barry/Keith-although having fun with high torque at relatively low rpm's, and bragging rights, with the Cobra being so light weight, we can't use much of it anyway. With this new motor, I like the idea of using higher rpm's, to say 6,000-6,500. But, at what point is too much seat pressure and too tall of lift for the street and still be reliable ?

I don't mind lashing the valves or replacing the springs apx. every few years, but I don't want a pain in the @ss,... to radical for the street either. I had enough of that with my Pro-Street Camaro,.... many moons ago.

I hear the T&D valvetrain can withstand the abuse ?

[FFR428]

Originally Posted by Keithc8

We used the new Pond Motor sports/ Keith Craft head that we designed the ports on for him. All we did to the heads was bowl port with a little short side work and gasket match. The heads had 2.19/1.75 valves and these new heads are on the original medium riser valve centers.

Good luck, Keith Craft

Do tell a bit more about these new heads? Is this the aluminum head that's been on Roberts site? I have heard some say those are Edelbrock based castings. Is that true or are these something different? Hope I'm not putting you on the spot asking.

[FUNFER2]

Keith- What are the flow mumbers after porting and what's your price ?

[FUNFER2]

Is this BT dual plane intake one to have ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT

[undy]

No, this one's the low riser, not worth a poop for you. The BT you're looking for is the 427MR 1x4. It's the manifold I got rid of for the Tunnel Wedge.

[FUNFER2]

Great, I appreciate it. thanks bud.

[Dumpling]

Originally Posted by Barry_R

................
Dove single four - looks completely wrong with a giganourmous plenum - even stupidly large on the high riser/Dominator version. You could put a small block intake inside of there. But actually runs pretty well. ............

'modern' SBF for the FE...

[FUNFER2]

Ok, what's your opinion ?

I know Rick & Dave believe in building a "Torque" engine, and I agree. High HP numbers are for bragging rights. My buddy says with the hope of making 625-650 HP and TQ, in such a light weight cobra, the high TQ in the upper band,...is more important than down low, as I won't get traction anyway.

Without,..... going into detail, my 428 fell on it's face in third gear. I was NOT happy with that, so with this motor, I'll be pissed ,..... if this happens again.

There are of course many,.... details to work out, not just which manifold.

I'm sure I will stay under 6,500 rpm. Long rpm power band, not just in the upper range. Solid roller cam 496 cubes, alum. heads. (Don't' start buddy)

Edelbrock RPM- Single plane. It will fit under my hood. Longer rpm range.

Edelbrock Victor- Will have to mill the carb surface around 1/2" to fit. Since the runners are open (air gap), I'm sure cooler fuel ect....
Middle to upper rpm range.

Blue Thunder- possibly,... more cfm than the Edelbrock after machining/porting. More expensive.

I may as well open the candy jar again, with what specs. are needed for a
"Best of all worlds" side oiler. My hope is to have the entire engine, a close to perfection combination, all parts working together.

SOUND, FEEL, STREET, DRAG AND LOOKS,.... ARE ALL IMPORTANT.

Pump gas.
MPG- 8 +

Here's what we have thought so far.

Genesis side oiler.
496 cu.
425/425 bore & stroke (?)
Scat- crank & rods
Mahle- slugs.
Alum. heads. (ported/polished to the max)
Valves (?)
Mechanical roller cam. (625-570 lift, 260-275 dur. 110-108 sep.)
T & D rockers.
Lifters- (?)
Quick Fuel carb. 950 cfm.
MSD 6 AL

Let's get down to details between the heads. Pro's & Con's. and the rest of the parts, I need to decide by Tuesday May 16 th. !!!

I appreciate all your advise & opinion (except for the type of cam)..... DAVE lol (love ya buddy)

This will be as close to my dream engine, as I'll ever get. I'm very happy with all of the sponsors that are aboard for this build. I'm excited and honored, that this build will be in Car Craft and Kit Car Builder magazines !

Kev