Crankshaft Dampner Separated -- Arghh!

[patrickt]

EDIT -- This thread has detailed pics and steps on the R&R of a Ford FE harmonic balancer (dampner), the choice of new dampner types, torque values involved, and suggestions on making the job easier.


Dang, trying to get to the pig roast and I hear a funny "clanging" noise from my engine -- almost like ringing a bell. Opened the hood and what a pleasant surprise:

[Rick Parker]

Arizona made damper attempting to get away from the fan belt???

[ERA Chas]

Wow-you must have buzzed that thing to almost 5000!
Those balancers are junk-you can thank Joe for that selection.

You can get it off and on in the car. Use a puller and installation tool. Make sure the new one is about .0003" press fit. They can be honed if too tight-send it back if too loose. And use a new ARP bolt.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Wow-you must have buzzed that thing to almost 5000!
Those balancers are junk-you can thank Joe for that selection.

You can get it off and on in the car. Use a puller and installation tool. Make sure the new one is about .0003" press fit. They can be honed if too tight-send it back if too loose. And use a new ARP bolt.

You're right, it is a piece of crap. What do you recommend for a replacement?

[blykins]

The Professional Products balancers are a good balancer for the money. Good fit, comes with a pulley....

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

The Professional Products balancers are a good balancer for the money. Good fit, comes with a pulley....

Thanks. What would you recommend though as the the best one, regardless of cost? And what would make that one better than a basic one (that doesn't come flying apart, that is).

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

You're right, it is a piece of crap. What do you recommend for a replacement?

Brent mentions a good choice-also BHJ and of course ATI are quality balancers. Think BHJ is the cheapest and not sure if ATI makes an FE application.

Here's mine:


Innovators West:
http://www.innovatorswest.com/store/...d&productId=20

Ain't cheap but SFI approved, fluid filled, all aluminum and degreed all around. Took three pounds off the crank nose compared to what you had. Bulletproof and Art is a great guy to work with.
You may not want a race-capable piece like this but don't skimp-you already have an $800 flywheel, right??

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

You may not want a race-capable piece like this but don't skimp-you already have an $800 flywheel, right??

Yep, needlessly pissed away a good bit on that CenterForce aluminum flywheel. I see the ATIs for me are around $375, the Fluidamper comes in around $433, and the high end Professional Product is around $245, and the cheap crap is all below that. Why is there such a disparity in price? If the existing balancer just pulls off without the need for a puller tool, is it still necessary to use an "installation tool?" I've never done that in the past.

[Barry_R]

ATI is the best - the FE one is roughly 7 degrees off on the TDC marking and uses a Chevy pulley bolt pattern. More race car quality at just under $400. I have no experience with BHJ, but they should be comparable.

The next one I would use is a Romac - nicely made Australian piece availalble in either a reproduction 427 (single timing marking and a pulley) or a fully marked aluminum ring model. Both are really decent parts that use FE mountings, at just under $300.

The Professional Products stuff is Chinese made, inexpensive, and fine for a budget oriented street build. Not in the same quality league as the ATI or Romac.

[ERA Chas]

I've heard bad things about the Fluidamper (the brand not the type). I can't substantiate what I heard but am very glad I got the Innovators piece. It's been on the motor for 12 seasons-plus it's rebuildable by Art. The Fluidamper is sealed so it's not.

Price depends on steel or aluminum, fluid or solid and where manufactured as well as the precision of machining. ATI's are very good-I've seen them run on dynos to 8000+.

About removal/install; you don't have room to pry (barbaric) in the car anyway so don't skimp-buy or borrow the tools. I've seen guys hammer them on (also barbaric) but the tools actually make it easier in the car. I did it on my back. Good new is you can use your impact wrench to spin the bolt off. Going on you gotta put it in gear (rear tires on ground) because they all want well over 100 lbft of torque.

Interference fit is vital-that's why you need the install tool. You can't just push these on. Do this; take your dial caliper (that reads to .0000") and measure the crank snout-take readings in 4 places around the nose. In my case, I called Art, told him my numbers and he honed one to my proper press fit. Every manufacturer wants a different number so if you buy an ATI for instance, measure the damper ID and their installation sheet will tell you the press they want. Compare to your crank's OD and do the math. If it's too tight, go to a local machinist and get it honed. Too loose and send it back for another.

Get an ARP bolt-don't reuse old one-torque to damper's spec. Don't lose the woodruff key!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Barry_R

ATI is the best - the FE one is roughly 7 degrees off on the TDC marking and uses a Chevy pulley bolt pattern. More race car quality at just under $400. I have no experience with BHJ, but they should be comparable.

Thanks Barry -- ATI it is. BTW, Amazon wrote me that they shipped your book to me on Friday.

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

About removal/install; you don't have room to pry (barbaric) in the car anyway so don't skimp-buy or borrow the tools. I've seen guys hammer them on (also barbaric) but the tools actually make it easier in the car. I did it on my back. Good new is you can use your impact wrench to spin the bolt off. Going on you gotta put it in gear (rear tires on ground) because they all want well over 100 lbft of torque.

OK, I'll do it your way. As much as you are a PITA, you're generally more right than wrong -- thanks.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

OK, I'll do it your way. As much as you are a PITA, you're generally more right than wrong -- thanks.

Barry gives the best reason-the OE's are never accurate with the timing marks.

I'm glad to share if I've gone through something that can help somebody-EVEN you. Just glad that thing didn't frag at 70 MPH on the way to your haberdasher...

[patrickt]

This looks like it might fit the bill: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATI-918290/ What do you think? Looks like they're a little back ordered on it though.

[ERA Chas]

Fine-just check with Barry that the 3 bolt pulley you have works with that and make sure the fan belt lines up correctly when all bolted up. And order the bolt at the same time.

Just curious, the Innovators is $35 cheaper...?

[patrickt]

Well, lemmee look at the Innovators again. In the meantime, Barry will this pulley work on the ATI 918290?

[FWB]

patrick,
i have used several BHJ dampners and i like them alot, they come with or without an SFI rating, i also purchased BHJ's honing plate, their quality is excellent and the timing marks are right on. you can buy direct from them but keith craft racing was selling them below BHJ's price. they will have the ford bolt pattern....

[patrickt]

Well, after reading the ATI 2010 Performance Catalog I'm pretty sure my pulley won't fit. You know, I've heard of them slipping before, but never coming completely apart.

[Keithc8]

As mentioned earlier he ATI is one of the best but the bolt pattern for the pulley is the same as BBC. All you have to do to your pulley is egg shape the bolt holes a little, it centers on the ring in the center so you are fine. I do not for sure about the timing marks as mentioned before but you could use a piston stop to check TDC. The BHJ or nice as well plus we are now using a lot of the Pioneer dampers which are a less expensive unit made in Australia that come either as a SFI approved unit or not. Let us know if we can help.

Thanks, Keith

[RICK LAKE]

patrickt Pat have 14 years on the FE motor one without any problems except when the motor is in cold weather. The internal weight in the fluid take longer to zero out the vibrations of the motor. It can be real ugly for a minute or 2 until the fluid heats. They are rebuildable. The FE one I have has only BBC bolt pattern for the pulley like others have said. I did the same thing and ob longed the mounting holes to make the crank pulley work. The pulley does center on the dampener. Mark slots on the pulley and with a good deremal tool cut out the slots. Use good bolts and washers to install. I also use a little blue locktite. What you have is the problem with rubber dampeners and higher rpm motors. The rubber looses grip over time. Be happy that it didn't go the other way and take out the belt, hood or coolant system. You can get that dampener rebuilt. I would have to look up the number for this. Rick L.

[Barry_R]

You will need to nibbl on the mounting holes a bit with that pulley and the ATI. We use the Bridgeport to do it 'cuz we have one - but you can do it by hand with a die grinder or whatever. About 1/2 a hole diameter toward the outside should do the job.