Tired and frustrated with the glycol in oil leak..

[Excaliber]

Bxx1, "freon" (a generic term that covers a lot of different manufacturers and gases, like you might use the term "coke" or "kleenex" for instance) displaces oxygen in your lungs. Once you breath it in it's really really hard to get it out, so you suffocate, or die in your sleep as the case may be... The air mattress leaked freon overnight, displacing the oxygen in the room and the guys lungs. I guess similiar results could be had by filling your air mattress from a hose hooked to the exhaust pipe of your car? Yo, Darwin rules!

Rumor has it, I've never personally confirmed it, that freon when exposed to a flame, creates very deadly phosgene gas. So, when that VW was on fire on the side of the road and I didn't have an extinguisher handy, I used a 30 lb cylinder of freon R-12 I had with me. Turned the bottle upside down, shot the fire with liquid freon, snuffed it out in a heart beat (no oxygen you see) and then ran like hell from the monster "phosgene gas" cloud I'm afraid I might have created...

Same principle with Halon Extinguishers, the gas will STILL suffocate you (and put out the fire) but apparently doesn't react badly to a fire to create a deadly gas.

[undy]

Originally Posted by olddog

I must have got confused somewhere earlier. Yes soap is a great test. Obviously you know all about leak tests in your line of work. You don't need me to tell you that.

OK it sounds like the intake is totally ruled out, and the intake gaskets maybe not totally but very low probability. I agree the next step is pressure test the block and heads together and go from there.

One question on picture #1. The block deck seems to not be solid where the intake and heads mate up. Is that a drain path to the pan or what?

I just "re-clearanced" the pushrod holes in the intake where I couild see witness marks from a little pushrod contact and resculpted the water ports too to maximize coolat flow a little better. I paid my local shipper to box it up and off it went for a dose of Vacuum Casting Impregnation. I'm famous for my "overkill". The concept has worked for me thus far.










BTW... today, upon a close visual inspection of the two rear machined flat surfaces of the intake, the surfaces that block off the rear 2 coolant ports of the heads, I could of sworn I saw a bit of porosity on one adjacent to a pushrod hole. hmmm..... I didn't pressure test that end. The impregation will take care of it, assuming it is the leak. The block/heads pressure testing will hopefully show me everything else is tighter than Dick's hatband.

You guys all rock!!!

Since I didn't have a POS harmonic balancer, a screwed up clutch or an engine vibration, a lousy coolant leak is the best I could come up with.. My time for those maladies is coming. Man ya got to love these engines. Where's McDoo's words of encouragement when ya need 'em?

Most of my FE woes HAVE been cooling system related though...

[olddog]

Originally Posted by undy

BTW... today, upon a close visual inspection of the two rear machined flat surfaces of the intake, the surfaces that block off the rear 2 coolant ports of the heads, I could of sworn I saw a bit of porosity on one adjacent to a pushrod hole. hmmm..... I didn't pressure test that end. The impregation will take care of it, assuming it is the leak. The block/heads pressure testing will hopefully show me everything else is tighter than Dick's hatband.

Wish you could have proven that was your leak. It may well be. If the rest of the engine holds pressure, I would bet that was it. If not, you still have to keep looking.

[Bxx1]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Bxx1, "freon" (a generic term that covers a lot of different manufacturers and gases, like you might use the term "coke" or "kleenex" for instance) displaces oxygen in your lungs. Once you breath it in it's really really hard to get it out, so you suffocate, or die in your sleep as the case may be... The air mattress leaked freon overnight, displacing the oxygen in the room and the guys lungs. I guess similiar results could be had by filling your air mattress from a hose hooked to the exhaust pipe of your car? Yo, Darwin rules!

Rumor has it, I've never personally confirmed it, that freon when exposed to a flame, creates very deadly phosgene gas. So, when that VW was on fire on the side of the road and I didn't have an extinguisher handy, I used a 30 lb cylinder of freon R-12 I had with me. Turned the bottle upside down, shot the fire with liquid freon, snuffed it out in a heart beat (no oxygen you see) and then ran like hell from the monster "phosgene gas" cloud I'm afraid I might have created...

Same principle with Halon Extinguishers, the gas will STILL suffocate you (and put out the fire) but apparently doesn't react badly to a fire to create a deadly gas.

Thanks for the explaination...

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by undy

I've stayed away from the waterless coolant (Evans etc) as it doesn't have near the heat rejection capability of water/glycol. I don't feel I have enough redundancy in my cooling system to give up any capacity. I did look into it a year or so ago.


The saga continues...

I hope you've found it...

I wouldn't dismiss the waterless coolant so quickly...

The waterless coolant actually allows you to run much higher engine temps with no damage since there's no pressure (your cooling capacity has actually increased, because your engine can run at 300+ deg now). Also detonation is all but eliminated in the cumbustion chamber since the steam pockets can't form in the water jacket (basically acting like an insulator, creating a "hot spot"). No more running on the rich side to keep detonation down. Aluminum heads help with this but don't eliminate it.

Not to mention no water, no eating the aluminum up.

There's a reason this stuff exists, water wasn't up to the job. You have to look beyond 10deg hotter temps to what's really wrecking your motor.

Water (like oxygen) is simply doing what it's supposed to do, erode and corrode stuff into simpler compounds.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Ronbo

...because your engine can run at 300+ deg now).

Great but your oil, valve springs and hoses can't. Run at regular temps of 240 or more and eventually your bores will marry the rings. Do you run Evans in your KMP? What temps do you get in oil and water in FL?

Fresh, clean coolant or water, changed regularly, is far more cost effective and far less damaging then you state. The stuff exists so its makers can hugely profit from markets where it's not needed.

[Excaliber]

Hmmmm, I never heard of this water less cooler compound. I'll do some research, sounds interesting. But I'm pretty much a straight water and Water Wetter kind of guy.

I HAVE noticed my cooling capacity is better with straight water than an antifreeze mix, say 50/50. There is no question in my mind there, straight water out performs any antifreeze mix (and it's track friendly if you loose some coolant on the race track). I really don't like the idea of running with folks on the track that use an antifreeze mix, I don't need to be slipping and sliding in their spill!

[undy]

Pure water having a heat rejection 1.0 places pure antifreeze at a .80 and the Evans stuff between a 0.75 and 0.70. This is all from memory so the numbers for antifreeze and the Evans coolant may be a tad different. I've heard some internet horror stories about the Evans stuff.

I'm with you, Chas and Ernie, sort of a water, 30% glycol and Water Wetter kinda guy.

[Ronbo]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Great but your oil, valve springs and hoses can't. Run at regular temps of 240 or more and eventually your bores will marry the rings. Do you run Evans in your KMP? What temps do you get in oil and water in FL?

Fresh, clean coolant or water, changed regularly, is far more cost effective and far less damaging then you state. The stuff exists so its makers can hugely profit from markets where it's not needed.

I run it in my street vehicle, plan to run it in the Kirkham as well.

The problems you mention were in what? Engines running water because your combustion chamber temps were too high from the steam pockets. Your combustion chamber temps will decrease with the waterless (and remain more stable to boot).

As far as damage, thread after thread of anodes, corroded radiators, coolant leaks, ate up aluminum, yada, yada. (leaks, leaks, leaks)

As far as internet searches of problems with Evens? Found lots of boil-over conditions solved and one guy that didn't know if he should top off his leaking coolant system with water.

Sorry, not seeing the problem here. Other than convincing yourself it won't work because the herd runs water. (I saw one reply here from someone actually using it that said it helped, everyone else seems convinced it won't based on their experience not using it)

[Excaliber]

OK, I'm in!!! Just ordered 5 gallons of Evans coolant. I also plan to change my T-Stat to a low pressure one. Lower pressure will help the various fittings and hoses, less likely to leak. This stuff looks good, I'm sold.

Why 5 gallons? I THINK my ERA holds 4 and then an extra "just because" I tend to spill stuff.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

OK, I'm in!!! Just ordered 5 gallons of Evans coolant. I also plan to change my T-Stat to a low pressure one. Lower pressure will help the various fittings and hoses, less likely to leak. This stuff looks good, I'm sold.

Why 5 gallons? I THINK my ERA holds 4 and then an extra "just because" I tend to spill stuff.

T-stat or Expansion tank/radiator cap?

Make sure that there's no, zero, nada anitfreeze left in your system prior to adding the Evans. They can't be mixed. Keep us posted with the outcome.

[vector1]

i use the evans in my ford diesel truck with a 210 deg thermostat, and used it in my aluminum engine i built. have seen no problems. the aluminum engine did get pretty warm at gateway, over 210 deg, but i wasn't running a lot of compression either.

the stuff does absorb water, which makes it less effective, i've read anyway.

in the case of the truck, i can leave the radiator cap off and the heat will boil the water off, i can see the steam. but you don't want any water in the system if you change over, i used it from the start in the aluminum engine so didn't have to mess with that end of the deal.

the stuff is slick also, and some tracks won't let you use it, and you definitely wouldn't want to experience a bad leak on track. but, you can run unpressurized, so the chance of blowing a gasket or hose is minimal.

[Excaliber]

Did I say T-Stat? Sheessshh, the ravages of age, of course I meant pressure cap, doh,,,

Interesting comment about some tracks not likeing it, being slick and all. Doggone it, the writeups and reviews I read talked so much about it being a "race proven" technology, they never bothered to mention the down side of spilling some on the track. I'm running straight water and Water Wetter, thats a good point about getting as much water out of the system as possible before making the change over.

[Bxx1]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Hmmmm, I never heard of this water less cooler compound. I'll do some research, sounds interesting. But I'm pretty much a straight water and Water Wetter kind of guy.

I HAVE noticed my cooling capacity is better with straight water than an antifreeze mix, say 50/50. There is no question in my mind there, straight water out performs any antifreeze mix (and it's track friendly if you loose some coolant on the race track). I really don't like the idea of running with folks on the track that use an antifreeze mix, I don't need to be slipping and sliding in their spill!

I know that water has superior heat transfer ability than anti-freeze coolants. I just flushed my water and 1 bottle of water wetter for a 50% solution of green anti-freeze for the anti-corrosive ability. Car runs a bit hotter (now in the normal temp range). I just didnt trust that small bottle of water wetter to provide that kind of metal protection for my engine/radiator. I understand that for track work anti-freeze is prohibited.

[Z-linkCobra]

I read all the info on the web page at Evans....Im not sold on the stuff. For me there were way to many "Possible" advantages if you know what I mean. I dont care what you run for coolant...nothing is going to increase compression of your motor...lol...snake oil I tell ya, snake oil...lol.

I dont think its a total sham...just not convinced.

[ERA Chas]

See comments in bold below:

Originally Posted by Ronbo

I run it in my street vehicle, plan to run it in the Kirkham as well. So you're encouraging a guy to use something in a Cobra that you haven't used in a Cobra? Nice. Your street vehicle and a Cobra are worlds apart from a heat production/retention standpoint.

The problems you mention were in what? Engines running water because your combustion chamber temps were too high from the steam pockets. Your combustion chamber temps will decrease with the waterless (and remain more stable to boot). I never had ANY problems with chambers /steam or ANY coolant-related issues in 15 years with the same block and system in a Cobra. Iron block, aluminum heads, aluminum rad. Using green/distilled water mix changed biennially. Where do you get this stuff?

As far as damage, thread after thread of anodes, corroded radiators, coolant leaks, ate up aluminum, yada, yada. (leaks, leaks, leaks) If you could produce these reams of evidence, they will be found to be caused by negligent cooling maintenance, not using the block drains and or aged equipment.

As far as internet searches of problems with Evens? Found lots of boil-over conditions solved and one guy that didn't know if he should top off his leaking coolant system with water.

Sorry, not seeing the problem here. Other than convincing yourself it won't work because the herd runs water. (I saw one reply here from someone actually using it that said it helped, everyone else seems convinced it won't based on their experience not using it) Missed my point entirely while doing your Evans commercial. I've used the water method exclusively because I learned the proper way to install and care for it which eliminates ANY engine/radiator corrosion issues or the mysterious combustion chamber volcanoes you imagine. No anodes or yada-yadas. Thus, no reason to look for a"BETTER WAY"-especially a more costly better way.

But the major point is that your response does nothing to help Undy solve his question. He doesn't NEED a better coolant. Whether using water, Evans or Kool-Aid---what is causing coolant to find oil and gel in his valve covers???

[Ronbo]

The Evens commercial is over, you can relax now.

If you bothered to read through the entire thread you'd find that I may have been the only one to correctly identify Undy's problem. (so maybe I'm not quite the dumbazz you think I am)

But hey, no one could possibly teach you something when you already know what's really happening.

If you'd bother to actually read about the history of this product you'd see that GM invested heavily into it's development - probably because it was totally unnecessary. No, it's probably best to broad-brush people's problems with water as a result of poor maintenance.

I really don't care if you choose not to run it, is it OK with you if someone else does?

[Excaliber]

I may have been the only one to correctly identify Undy's problem.

Uh, since, apparently, Undy's problem has now been identified, could someone condense the cause of this milkshake problem one more time for me? Some how, I think I missed the "correctly identified problem" here...

Was it a crack? Head gasket? Not using Evans cooling? Porous intake? Or, is the jury still out on the cause?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Uh, since, apparently, Undy's problem has now been identified, could someone condense the cause of this milkshake problem one more time for me? Some how, I think I missed the "correctly identified problem" here...

You missed it. It turned out that the kid next door was sneaking over every few days and pouring a cup of water in to his valve cover.

[ERA Chas]

...And did GM's investment in Evans lead to every GM vehicle coming with a radiator full of it? Seems like they passed on it for production use. They're content to have all those steam pockets, corroded blocks, heads and rads remain in all their stuff. They should have invested in anode makers then...GM also invested heavily in E85 to the betterment of farmers and detriment of users with worse mileage. Also Saturn and a few hundred other projects best left deceased now.

No I don't think you're a dumbazz. I think you mean well and you believe you have found a better way and want to 'help' people. But as Ernie said, what is your solution for Undy? He (and most of the rest of us) doesn't need coolant help.