Tired and frustrated with the glycol in oil leak..

[vector1]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

I magnified #4 up to 1000% and it sure looks like a crack----

does look like a crack

[undy]

Originally Posted by vector1

since everything is aluminum and expands quite a bit, i would still look to sealing problems at the intake. if you've eliminated the possibility of the intake porosity problem, then........

next time you install the intake loosen the head bolts and install the intake and torque to spec or as close as possible, then torque the heads down. that should provide a good mating surface between the intake and heads.

One more time, repeat after me... IT'S NOT a CRACK!

I'm not sure if you're supposed to loosen, move and retorque the Failpro 1020 head gaskets. I believe they're supposed to be a one-shot torque gasket. I'm sure repositioning them for the intake would be a no-no. The port alinment and everything else is perfect with the intake anyway.

[cdnus]

I agree--- if you have a sniffer available your method will work better.

Most of us are not that well equipped.

Good luck with your search, I hope it turns out to be fairly simple to rectify.

Craig

[undy]

Originally Posted by Z-linkCobra

I think its a head gasket. Running your oil at the temps your running at is burning the water out of the oil in the pan and the motor. The valve covers run quite a bit cooler and cool faster when you shut the motor down..hence the milk shake but not the creamy oil.

Are you loosing water? Something you might try if you have it back together and didnt fix the leak. Put a radiator pressure tester on the radiator. Pump it up to about 15 psi...fire it up and let it run for just a few minutes. Then check your oil and see if you have any coolant present. Need to check it before it has a chance to get hot enough to burn it off.

Just a thought.

I hope it isn't a head gasket but it's looking more and more that it may be. I'm probably going to pressure test the entire engine next as soon as I can fabricate some more blank flanges for the other head and water pump block inlets. At least that will tell me if I'm headed for a further tear down.

I'm losing hardly any water, just enough that would be accounted for with the minor coolant leak into the oil.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

I magnified #4 up to 1000% and it sure looks like a crack----

A comment about nitrogen and air being mostly nitrogen----we breathe because of a build up of carbon dioxide in our res systems----a lung full of nitrogen will cause no co2 and you won't breathe---just go to sleep

The slime will go away with proper/adequate ventilation of the engine---it could be building up because of your two breathers. not the correct balance of flow and also the engine can be sucking in outside vapor on cool down---the ribbed covers agrevate that condition (top of motor cools quicker than bottom, alum quicker than iron)

you are pretty upset at this and it shows in your responses--

have you been a taster of coolant for very many years???

It's not a crack, I promise.

As I recall, on the breathing Nitrogen the statement that was made "One lungfull and you're dead". It takes quite a few lung fulls to put someone down. It's inert and non-toxic .... but as you hinted it displaces air/oxygen, like quite a few gasses out there does.

About 40 years worth of intermittent coolant tasting. It goes along with the many years I used to wash my hands in MEK!

The slime WILL NOT go away. It's from coolant leakage, not outside humidty being sucked into the motor and condensing up top. I had ZERO sludge while that block sealer I was using worked (6 months worth). The block sealer had nothing to do with proper crankcase ventilation.

I'm trying to come across as not being too upset, but I am... I feel I need to answer everyone's replies as I was the one that asked for everyone's suggestions in the first place. I've got a degree in Automotive Technologies and a non-current ASE master certification so I didn't fall off the apple cart yesterday.

Funny, I've not heard much from the internet experts much today?? Google must be down... Pat, are you there???? heh, heh.... Sometimes it's good to be bad.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

Pat, are you there???? heh, heh.... Sometimes it's good to be bad.

Yes, I'm here. But I don't know what's causing your leak. And I thought you could breath a little bit of nitrogen and it wouldn't hurt you....

[Z-linkCobra]

When you do pressure test the motor make sure you check for leaks at the oil drains in the head. Im not real fimiliar with the FE motors but im not sure that block sealer would stop the leak at a head gasket for 6 months. You could possibly have some pitting from the oil drain galley to through into the water jacket.

I know that would really blow and you dont want to hear that....lol..but just a thought.

[RICK LAKE]

Undy Dave what would happen if you charged the manifold with Freon? you have a sniffer like mine that will pick up very small leaks and the dye will leave a stain wheres its coming through?? Brain farting, Pat's not helping yet!!! Rick L. Ps if this doesn't show anything, do the block the same way if you can get a good seal. By the way Pat like the dentist office for his fix.

[undy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Yes, I'm here. But I don't know what's causing your leak. And I thought you could breath a little bit of nitrogen and it wouldn't hurt you....

Not knowing never stopped you before... With everything else that's been through my lungs, Nitrogen would be my least worry.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by undy

Not knowing never stopped you before... .

If you keep pressurizing everything, and everything keeps passing, all I can think is that you just start blindly replacing gaskets. Sorry.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Z-linkCobra

When you do pressure test the motor make sure you check for leaks at the oil drains in the head. Im not real fimiliar with the FE motors but im not sure that block sealer would stop the leak at a head gasket for 6 months. You could possibly have some pitting from the oil drain galley to through into the water jacket.

I know that would really blow and you dont want to hear that....lol..but just a thought.

If the pressure test on the engine show a leak then I'll pull the heads and pressure test them individually. If it ends up being the block then ..........

The initial block sealer treatment stopped it for about 3 months or so and the leak started to gradually come back. That's when I gave it a second dose of treatment and same scenario, the leak started to return after several months. It seemed as the sealant flakes settled in the system their ability to plug the hole diminished.

Originally Posted by RICK LAKE

Undy Dave what would happen if you charged the manifold with Freon? you have a sniffer like mine that will pick up very small leaks and the dye will leave a stain wheres its coming through?? Brain farting, Pat's not helping yet!!! Rick L. Ps if this doesn't show anything, do the block the same way if you can get a good seal. By the way Pat like the dentist office for his fix.

C'mon Pat, Rick 'n me need ya. There's GOT TO BE some added value somewhere, somehow...

Ya got to watch that FREON, one whiff and you're a DEAD MAN, or so I've been told. There's no ozone left growing moss between these ears..

[Jerry Clayton]

One thing about a fe engine--once you have the intake off theres only 10 more bolts in each head----

Even with your degree, I can tell you how to ventilate your engine so the slime doesn't collect and eventually mix with the whole oil supply----so you might have to add a cup of green stuff semi annually, but you won't have any slime/sludge in your valve covers.

This same problem showed up at nite drags and changes to non finned valve covers corrected it---
Engines with the exhaust evaq vents/whisles and non finned covers didn't do it!!!!!

[Jerry Clayton]

And if you are going to pressure test the engine--you can do it one side at a time without removing the heads

[patrickt]

Undy, would you be willing to put the Blue Thunder back on for remainder of the summer? If your leak then disappeared then you could switch it back with the Dove, and if it reappeared, the Dove would have to go. If it were me, that's probably what I would do.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

And if you are going to pressure test the engine--you can do it one side at a time without removing the heads

Thanks Jerry, you're entirely right... I didn't even think about how the coolant passages do not go left to right, other than in the intake. That's what I call ADDED VALUE! That should narrow it down even further. Not seeing a FE coolant flow diagram I would assume the the right side water pump block entrance just feeds the right side of the block and visa versa for the left side.

As I'd said, I never had the froth until I had the coolant leak. It never produced the froth before for two years, with the other intake and the exact same ventilation system (2 breathers and a PCV) and the same finned valve covers.

[Excaliber]

...being one of the resident internet expert's I thought I better get in on this thread as well.

Don't have a clue, you've covered the bases nicely.

I did like Rick's idea of under water testing for bubbles, I've had good luck with that finding very small leaks in tires. I don't currently have any freon or gas type leak detection tools, so a water bath would have to do for me.

Taste of glycol is a key element in this exercise, very telling.

On removing the heads: Head bolts no problem, HEADER bolts are a PITA however!

[patrickt]

Uhhh, Ernie... before he disassembles his engine and puts his block under water, wouldn't you like to see a season with the ol' tried 'n true Blue Thunder intake back on it?

[ERA Chas]

Dave,
Just grasping again but this thought occurred:

A. Started after the intake change-right?
B. Goo only in VC's-right?

Guessing that water is entraining into the oil feed at the rocker pedestals in each head. That would contaminate only the valve cover area. Don't know where such water could come from and don't know why the goo doesn't go down the corner head drains and contaminate the valley/crankcase areas. You don't oil through the pushrods right?

Just trying to get someone smarter than me to think away from all the gasket/head/porosity/testing stuff beat to death here. You've covered all that in my view.

If you haven't already-get KC to listen and offer a thought or two. I KNOW he's not responsible for this problem.

Getting a headache.

[undy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Undy, would you be willing to put the Blue Thunder back on for remainder of the summer? If your leak then disappeared then you could switch it back with the Dove, and if it reappeared, the Dove would have to go. If it were me, that's probably what I would do.

Thanks Pat, but the probability of it being in the heads, block or head gaskets is too great for the added labor required for another two (possibly useless) intake swaps. I need to run this diagnosis to ground while I'm into it this far.

Who knows... I might even contract to BP to have them stop the leak.... NAW, my poor batting average is still better that theirs.
Water in the oil, oil in the water, same song with different lyrics.

[Excaliber]

I was talking about the intake (under water), not the block. Like Undy, I'm thinking intake because apparently it happened after the swap.

Of course, sometimes, logic such as that can be a red herring and it's not related at all. As fate would have it, the block or related component started to leak about the same time as the intake swap, couldn't rule it out.

Under water test is only applicable to those poor souls, like myself, without the diagnostic tools to do it another way.