Brad Penn Oil and the ZDDP Debate

[madmaxx]

It was your verbage in your original post that caused me to search the Mobil website and others for NON- energy conserving oils, that is when I found the Mobil 1 15W50. You will also find alot of 10W40 oils and 20W50 have the higher zinc/phosphorous additives since they do not classify and energy conservation. Valvoline VR-1 is a misleading fraud, they lead you to believe it has the additives but with the SJ rating it cannot have more than 800 ppm. Royal Purple also does not carry the SJ rating and loads their with zinc and phos but it is $$$$$ Pretty interesting.

Originally Posted by patrickt

Perfect example of how someone who does not carefully read your post will get mislead. 15w50 weight oil is exempt from the API limitations on SM oil. So they can indeed have the higher levels of zddp. Now if you pick up that same oil with a different weight, that zddp you want can be significantly reduced. And on the off-chance that oil has the SN rating after October and you see the words "Resource Conserving" on the label, forget it.

[patrickt]

Yep, we don't conserve energy and we're damn proud of it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

15w50 weight oil is exempt from the API limitations on SM oil. So they can indeed have the higher levels of zddp.

Now I realize the reason I'm running Joe Gibbs' 15w-50. Thanks.

[Bob In Ct]

It should be remembered that thicker is not always better. One of oil's three functions is to carry the heat away. Is it worth going to 20W-50 just for the ZDDP?

I'm sure if somebody would produce a 50-80 oil there would be a bunch of Cobra guys that would buy it.

Bob

[madmaxx]

Well said!!!!!

Originally Posted by Bob In Ct

It should be remembered that thicker is not always better. One of oil's three functions is to carry the heat away. Is it worth going to 20W-50 just for the ZDDP?

I'm sure if somebody would produce a 50-80 oil there would be a bunch of Cobra guys that would buy it.

Bob

[Snakebit]

We don't need to run synthetic oil as we change oil once a year, which is less than 3000 miles. I use synthetic in my daily driver as I expect to get over 200,000 out of the engine. Bradd Penn realy sticks to the engine parts, when I remove the valve covers to adjust the valves everything is coated with oil.

The cost from my local distributor, 10 miles from home, is $58 per case 15W40. No shipping charges. Comes to $4.84 per quart for real piece of mind.

As far as buying ZDDP, go to your local GM dealer. I think I paid $8.99 a bottle which is cheaper than ordering from Eastwood plus shipping.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Snakebit

Bradd Penn realy sticks to the engine parts, when I remove the valve covers to adjust the valves everything is coated with oil.

Yep, the puddles under my engine tend tend to run off the cement less quickly with Brad Penn.

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by Bob In Ct

It should be remembered that thicker is not always better. One of oil's three functions is to carry the heat away. Is it worth going to 20W-50 just for the ZDDP?

I'm sure if somebody would produce a 50-80 oil there would be a bunch of Cobra guys that would buy it.

Bob

All the more reason to buy your own ZDDP. You can add it to 0 - 20 weight if thats what you want to do. Buying your own ZDDP gives you the flexibility to do whatever you want to meet your own specific oil desires.


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[patrickt]

The problem with ZDDP additives is that you can not be assured that the additive is properly dispersed throughout the oil supply.

[CobraEd]

It comes pre mixed in a small oil base.


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[patrickt]

... which may sink to the bottom or float on the top. I would much rather have in from the get-go by the oil's manufacturer.

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by patrickt

... which may sink to the bottom or float on the top. I would much rather have in from the get-go by the oil's manufacturer.

You are kidding right !


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[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

... which may sink to the bottom or float on the top. I would much rather have in from the get-go by the oil's manufacturer.

And not being a chemist, although I play one on TV, when it does mix, does it mix in the same manner that it mixes when manufactured at the "oil factory"?

[CobraEd]

it is a perfectly clear golden oil color. There are no particles or solids in suspension. You would swear it was just regular oil.


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[madmaxx]

because it is just regular oil, LOL!!!

Originally Posted by CobraEd

it is a perfectly clear golden oil color. There are no particles or solids in suspension. You would swear it was just regular oil.


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[patrickt]

Putting together an additive that will disperse evenly and suspend consistently in a variety of densities (different oils have different densities) is more difficult than you would think. Ed, I don't know why you are so adamant on ZDDP additives. Even if you save three bucks a quart by buying a different oil, after you buy your additive you're only saving less than $20 on an oil change. If you need ZDDP, or just want it, then taking that risk is just dumb.

[CobraEd]

I am only adament about the flexibility it gives you. I have not and do not claim it will save money. All I am saying is that you can have free reign to pick and choose the very best oil per your personal preference without being hindered by ZDDP level issues since you can add that yourself.

So, . . . It is not about cost savings, it is about total flexibility and control over the oil that goes in your Cobra.


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[patrickt]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

So, . . . It is not about cost savings, it is about total flexibility and control over the oil that goes in your Cobra.

Well, what specifically is it that you want, but can't get in say BP or Gibbs? Or is your argument purely theoretical? (ie, "if BP or Gibbs didn't have something I really wanted, and I found it in another oil, but that oil didn't have a sufficient ZDDP content, then I could 'roll my own' and I would be happy.")

[CobraEd]

Not sure about Gibbs, but Brad Penn is not a full synthetic.

Personally I feel that Mobil 1 & Royal Purple are the very best oils on the market. When I add my own ZDDP, I am in my happy place


UPDATE: I just checked Gibbs and it is also not a full synthetic. And, . . I don't know who makes it.


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[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by CobraEd

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So, . . . It is not about cost savings, it is about total flexibility and control over the oil that goes in your Cobra.
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Ed,
To give you some perspective-you are debating this critical issue with a man who gladly spent $800 on a $380 flywheel and who's need for this highly specialized oil is the critical endurance of his 450 HP FE to make it to a trendy restaurant and back. His ET always includes the time of the meal.

Greg Anderson, producing 1800+HP out of 500 cubic inches worries less about his oil's molecular composition than our resident expert AT (All Things). And yes-he has a solid roller that's over an inch and springs with a jillion pounds of pressure and he changes oil after every run.

Hint: it's all about the post count.