C5AF distributor question

[dcdoug]

My C5AF-E distributor stopped advancing and it appears its likely due to surface rust on the mechanism (and maybe a bit of other crap too). I have removed the top half of the advance mechanism, but the bottom half seems stuck (although I haven't really pried much - don't want to until I get a response to this question). Will it come out on its own, or does the distributor shaft half to come out first?

Here's a pic of the piece I'm talking about that I need to remove for proper cleaning:



Oh, right now the top half of the advance mech is soaking in PB Blaster before I wire brush them. I wire brushed it a bit after spraying it and letting it sit overnight and it didn't come off easily, so I put it back into soak. Any other techniques for removing surface rust?

Thanks!

[Rick Parker]

Remove the gear and shaft, bead blast advance mechanism parts, consider replacing the bushings as needed (real easy) and reassemble. You'll never be satisfied with the finished product unless you disassemble it before attempting to clean it.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

Remove the gear and shaft, bead blast advance mechanism parts, consider replacing the bushings as needed (real easy) and reassemble. You'll never be satisfied with the finished product unless you disassemble it before attempting to clean it.

So the weights and bottom half of the advance mech aren't going to come out unless I remove the shaft? Also, given that I don't have a bead blaster, any other suggestions to remove the surface rust (other than soaking them and using a wire brush, which I is what I'm doing).

Do you know the exact bushings and where I can buy them?

Lastly, do I need any special hi-temp grease when I reassemble, or will garden variety automotive grease work fine?

[Rick Parker]

What you are looking at are the two fly weights and the base plate which iw welded to the shaft. The oil lite bushings can easily be driven out from the top. The ready made bushings may be obsolete (?) through Ford but can be provided easily by a competant machine shop. The OD & ID are standard sizes the length is a unique size. 2 readily available ones can be "stacked" to arrive at the necessary length. This is not a difficult job but has good benefits. Se of the shafts had a spiral groove that pulled oil to provide necessary lubrication.

[dcdoug]

Any idea what the OD & ID size and length is for the distributor bushing?

I guess they need to be oil-impregnated bronze bushings from my reading. I assume that I can get them from McMaster-Carr if someone knows the exact size.

[Rick Parker]

Dc. Check your PM's

[Rick Parker]

looks like 11/16 OD/ 1.75 long/ 15/32 ID. May have been reamed to size??

I remember having to use 2 1" long ones once when I did this repair, shortened 1 of them to achieve the finished length.

The used distributor shaft I measured was .466 OD

[Mark IV]

If you bead blast the shaft, I suggest you run it on a wire wheel to knock down the peaks and valleys that the blasting will create. There are several unique parts in a Ford dizzy, like the wave washers that go under the weights on the stud they pivot on and the felt that holds oil at the top of the shaft.

I'll look and see if I still have a box of N.O.S. oddball distributor parts lying around.

[dcdoug]

Other than the one flange bushing, I don't have any other bushings. The flange bushing is in decent shape, but I might replace it if I can find one anyway.



Are the wave washers below the weights, the c-clips that secure the weights and the thrust washer on top of the assemble specific to these distributors, or can they be found anywhere?

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by dcdoug

Are the wave washers below the weights, the c-clips that secure the weights and the thrust washer on top of the assemble specific to these distributors, or can they be found anywhere?

Standard to most all 1960 Ford V8 distributors. There should be a bushing pressed into the distributor housing as well, you won't find it until you dis-assemble the unit.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Standard to most all 1960 Ford V8 distributors. There should be a bushing pressed into the distributor housing as well, you won't find it until you dis-assemble the unit.

Ah, didn't realize that. I will look tonight.

[dcdoug]

I spoke to lots of people today about 1960 Ford distributors and got a number of small little parts being sent my way to get this thing back together in good shape.

The only items I didn't find was the upper and lower shaft bushings. Hopefully mine are in OK shape. I will look tonight. They are almost impossible to find. I got a lot of help from Tim O'Connor at Tim O'Connor's Ford Distributor repair (http://428cobrajetcars.com/home), who has been rebuilding these since 1966 and has forgotten more than I will ever know. He did tell me that you need a special tool to remove the upper bushing and told me where to look to see if it's in good shape. the lower bushing is smaller and easier to knock out and inspect.

There seems to be some demand for these bushings, surprising no one makes them.

Anyway, thanks for all your help and I'll report back what I find tonight.

[dcdoug]

The upper bushing looks OK, so I will leave it as is. The lower bushing is OK, but I would probably replace it if I had the option. I measured the ID as 7/8 and the OD as 21/32, although since I wasn't using a caliper, it might not be exact. However, nothing that McMaster-Carr sells in oil-impregnated bronze was even close, so unless someone has one laying around, I will just use the one I have. It should still be OK.

All surface rust has been removed using a fine wire wheel, so ready to go back together when I get the parts. Hopefully by Friday so I can make cars and coffee on Sat AM.

[Woodz428]

Look in the services section of Hemmings. There are several distributor rebuilders listed and they would surely have the bushings in stock or be able to tell you where to get them.

[dcdoug]

Originally Posted by Woodz428

Look in the services section of Hemmings. There are several distributor rebuilders listed and they would surely have the bushings in stock or be able to tell you where to get them.

I'll take a look. I spoke with several yesterday and the few that said they had them, said they only used them for complete rebuilds. Several said they often have to buy used distributors just to get the bushings (which would lead me to question their condition).

If you really wanted to, I'm sure you could take a new fitting (most have much thicker walls) and machine it to fit, but I think mine is in OK condition and will probably just go with that unless I find something different today.

EDIT: Maybe I mis-measured, hard to know, but I did find an oil-impregnated bronze bushing at McMaster that had an OD of 11/16" (I had measured 21/31") and an exact match for ID of 1/2" (I remeasured and this seems right). The length is 1/2" instead of 3/8". For $1.19, I'll see if it works....if it doesn't I'm OK with the one I have.

On the length - does anyone know if it matters if the lower bushing is 1/8 longer? I could always cut it to size, but am curious if it actually matters.

[Wbulk]

I was wondering what your shaft looks like. I went through the same thing, but even if I put in a new bushing my shaft had over .015 wear where the bushing was riding. So as you would rev the engine the dwell would change. I called a few rebuilders and was advised shafts in good condition were hard to come by. Most used cores were coming out of Mexico, but it was getting rare to find a shaft that was in good condition. I ended up buying a new aftermarket distributor. So, I guess I am saying mic your shaft for wear.

[dcdoug]

My shaft appears to be in good shape. I also have pertronix, so no issue with dwell changing. Maybe it's time to buy a proper measuring device.

[dcdoug]

OK, here's a question on the mechanical advance cam adjustment. My cam has two options, 15L and 10L for 30 degrees and 20 degrees mech advance.

When I took it out, 15L was on the limit pin, but I don't know that it was ever advancing properly and knowing that these cars like 18-22 degrees of base timing (mine was set at 22), it seems that adding another 30 degrees on top of that for a total of 52 would be WAY too much.

Thoughts? Should I go ahead and switch it to the 10L/20 degrees advance? And if I do this, as long as I rotate the assembly so that the rotor is in the exact same position as it was when I took out the distributor, the timing should be similar to what I started with, correct?

[Rick Parker]

If you have an Electric Motor repair shop in your vicinity, they may be able to help with the Bushings.

[Wbulk]

Yes, I would go with the 10L to give you 20 deg. of mechanical advance. To check this if you have timing marks on your damper you can set initial at 0 deg and rev the engine up to about 4K and watch the timing marks with your timing light. If you have vacuum advance it needs to be disconnected. If everything is working right you should hit that 20 deg. mark. Then you can add additional initial timing to get it where you want, somewhere in the mid 30s.

Or if you just want to set it for total advance, with vacuum advance disconnected, rev it up to about the same 4k, set the timing to about 36 deg. This of course is if you do not have really heavy advance springs. This would be a good starting point as engines vary depending how they were built, altitude, CR, AF ratio, etc.