White smoke and now motor is locked up

[kitcarbp]

sorry to hear about your engine misfortune, assuming this is a street car this should not happen in the low mileage you mentioned, hopefully your engine builder will stand behind their work and help you with cost to repair. Did you find those intake bolts loose near the photographed port ? Can you post a pic of the intake bolts/washers you used on this motor ?

[Excaliber]

I don't get it with these intake gasket failures. I've used two sets of really old and faded package intake gaskets on my side oiler. It's a high rise and those gaskets are kind of hard to get, so when I found some old ones at a nice price I grabbed them. I don't use sealer of any kind, just throw them on and bolt the intake down.

Maybe it's because I have iron heads (alloy intake though)? There does seem to be considerably more problems with alloy heads vs iron heads. I'm not sure I'm willing to give up the reliability for less weight. If I have to run the risk alloy heads seem to carry. I've just heard of to many problems in to many areas, not just intake gasket stuff, across the board.

[undy]

Yep, typical print-o-seal felpros... They've been going belly up now for nearly 20 years. If anyone's running them on their street engines I highly recommend you replace them ASAP. They've also leaked in the Chebbies I've built years ago. I can't imagine how a "knowledgeable" engine builder would ever use them...

So sorry to see that Chas. It would appear you pretty much have a basket case. The block may be sleevable but trauma like that often travels through an engine in ways that aren't readily apparent.

[Rick Parker]

Ernie may be on to something. Many of you with the Big inch Fe's rightly use aftermarket heads made of aluminum. They will by nature move around a little because of aluminums expansion properties. That being said, it's possible that after several heat cycles, the clamping load is diminished, allowing the gasket to be forced towards the intake port by the pressure exerterted on the gasket by the pressurized coolant.

[Wbulk]

The instructions with my Edelbrock intake said not to use the Felpro intake gaskets.

[Ibr8k4vetts]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

I don't get it with these intake gasket failures. I've used two sets of really old and faded package intake gaskets on my side oiler. It's a high rise and those gaskets are kind of hard to get, so when I found some old ones at a nice price I grabbed them. I don't use sealer of any kind, just throw them on and bolt the intake down.

Maybe it's because I have iron heads (alloy intake though)? There does seem to be considerably more problems with alloy heads vs iron heads. I'm not sure I'm willing to give up the reliability for less weight. If I have to run the risk alloy heads seem to carry. I've just heard of to many problems in to many areas, not just intake gasket stuff, across the board.

When I was building my 427, my Edelbrock heads said to use print-o-seal felpros....They lasted Two weeks! I got some $13.00 Victors, No more problems

[olddog]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

Ernie may be on to something. Many of you with the Big inch Fe's rightly use aftermarket heads made of aluminum. They will by nature move around a little because of aluminums expansion properties. That being said, it's possible that after several heat cycles, the clamping load is diminished, allowing the gasket to be forced towards the intake port by the pressure exerterted on the gasket by the pressurized coolant.

Not to mention 13 or so psi of manifold vacuum pulling on the gasket.

Aluminum thermal expansion is about 4 times that of cast iron. No doubt it is a factor, but maybe not the biggest factor. If it was all to thermal expansion, all iron would be best, aluminum intake only a little worse, intake and head worse yet, and an all aluminum engine much worse by leaps and bounds.

We all know to bolt torque plates on, and torque down the mains before honing to get true bores. I've read that setting the block on the mounts and torque up the bell housing is done by racers looking for the last Hp. So, blocks do flex. So much so that girdles are sold.

Now when a FE is thumping out 500 plus ft lb of torque, the tranny (drive shaft actually) is trying to rip the motor mounts from the frame. I have to question if the flexing of the block is more movement and stress on the intake gasket than the thermal expansion. The intake is likely helping the block to keep from splitting in two.

Thoughts?

[chas427fe]

I ended up having Bill Littleton come and get it today. He is going to pull the motor and send it to Eric at Performance Engineering in Ross, Ohio. I will keep you posted about how bad the damages are. Thanks for everybodies thoughts and concerns. The really good news it is only money. It is not like cancer or some other catastrophic illness in the family. Chas

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by chas427fe

I ended up having Bill Littleton come and get it today. He is going to pull the motor and send it to Eric at Performance Engineering in Ross, Ohio. I will keep you posted about how bad the damages are. Thanks for everybodies thoughts and concerns. The really good news it is only money. It is not like cancer or some other catastrophic illness in the family. Chas

Yep, that's the truth of the matter. You could look at it as kind of like a lucky opportunity to tweak up the ol' engine and get it in really nice shape. It's almost a good thing... almost.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

It's almost a good thing... almost.

Bet you wouldn't say that if it was yours.

My condolences to Chas.

[chas427fe]

Well just got back from Eric's. The block is shot, one piston and one rod. Walls are too thin to sleeve it. Eric has lined up a 1966 FE block and will start the rebuild after the 1st if the block checks out.

[Dominik]

Oh dear, happened to me too. I know how it feels...

My 427SO had 390 rods, one snapped. The beach marks showed a pre-stressed point which the builder failed to find during testing such rods.
Had I known about the 390 rods, I would have rebuilt the engine with decent ones before finishing the car. I got no compensation.

That's one of those things when you buy an unfinished kit.

[Scufty]

Originally Posted by chas427fe

Here are the pictures. In the lower right hand corner is the crack in the cylinder wall. Chas

Boy does that gasket look like something Ive seen a million times before ....what a rip ! crap gaskets. Good luck bud

[chas427fe]

The block that Eric had lined up turned out to be unusable. He has since gotten another and is in the process of rebuilding. It is supposed to be ready to dyno next Saturday. Looking forward to see it running again.

[Tom Wells]

chas,

You are not alone....

The Fel-Pro (fail-prone) gasket droop fiasco has been going on for years. Mostly in street engines that have a lot of heat-cool cycles. Race engines that are torn down often don't have the problem.

Have a look here http://www.firstcoastcobraclub.com/v...ilit=droop#p47

and also follow the links that are in that thread. Fel-Pro has finally admitted they had a problem and now supply this gasket with a steel shim reinforcement.

What compensation do they offer? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Welcome to the club. Sigh,

Tom

[chas427fe]

Talked to Eric today and after the all the machining during assembly he noticed a small crack. This being after testing the block before starting the process. After discussing it with Eric, we have decided to bite the bullit and get a Genesis block. This will involve new pistons so I will end up with a 496 since the bore is too big for my current pistons.

[Tony Ripepi]

Hi Chas,

Been reading the thread from the begining to today....happens to the best of us. I was wondering why you did not reach out the Keith Craft, he has the reputation of being a quality builder and standing behind his work, was he the builder that installed the Felpro's ?

Starting with a new Genesis block is a good move....Good Luck as you move forward.

Tony R.

[Sminor]

Hey Chas,
Been reading your thread today. Felpros failed in my 428 also and ended up causing alot of damage. Fortunately, I was able to salvage my motor. A friend told me he has a 428 service block (NOS) in plastic for sale a couple weeks ago. If you are interested, I'll see if he still has it. Good luck with your build.
steve

[chas427fe]

Tony, I didn't contact Keith since it had been 4 years and 10K miles. I will find out tomorrow how long it will be to get a block and get going again.

Steve, thanks for the offer but at this point a new block is the only way to go. This is the second old FE block that has failed me so I am moving on.

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by chas427fe

Tony, I didn't contact Keith since it had been 4 years and 10K miles. I will find out tomorrow how long it will be to get a block and get going again.

You know Keith reads all the stuff on this forum. One would think that he would reach out to you.


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