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Another Dumb Question: 428CJ vs 428SCJ - What's the difference?
I'm not embarrased to ask anything anymore. Besides I have a reputation now... :D
1. What's the difference between a "Cobra Jet" engine and a "Super Cobra Jet" engine? 2. Does this label apply only to 428's, or was it used for other sizes as well? Keith :) |
5hp difference
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First you have to start with the 428 v.s. the 428 CJ. The CJ block differs from the plain 428 due to the additional webs cast into the main bearing saddles.
The SCJ block is the same as a CJ. The differences for the SCJ were: 1) The beefer 427 "LeMans" connecting rods. 2) Cast iron PI (Police Interceptor) intake manifold. 3) An oil cooler That's basically it. Add additional choices for steeper rear end gearing and you had what Ford refered to as the "Drag Pack" option. Oh, and there were "CJ" and "SCJ" 429's but this is the FE forum. not the 385 series forum. :) |
Just a note on the LeMans rods. They were the be-all and end-all of rods back in the sixties, but metallurgy has far surpassed them today. When I had Southern Automotive rebuild my engine, I delivered it to him with a set of LeMans rods. One had spun on the crank bearing and all would have had to be resized, so Bill advised me strongly to change to modern rods for strength and reliability. Remember, these are 35 year old engines and parts we're playing around with. Many things have changed for the better since then. In fact, Bill uses late-model Chevy 454 hi-po rods in most of his stroker motors nowadays. (I know, blasphemy, but they work.) My 0.02 worth.:3DSMILE:
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Most of the differences have been listed except for one major difference. The 428SCJ was externally balanced with a counter weight behind a different harmonic balancer than the 428CJ.
This just my bit of trivia Tom |
Beginning at the Beginning...428 CJ & SCJ
Hi Keith...this Ford Article isn't the best scan I've ever done but the article is very
informative.... http://www.gessford.com/images/428-03.gif and a few more articles..... http://www.gessford.com/images/428cobrajet.htm Page 32 and 44 answer more of your CJ & SCJ question on the 428 and also the 429 http://www.gessford.com/images/FordMuscleStory.htm Regards, george |
My 427 racer buddy gave me a nos set of c6ae lemans rods,he strongly cautioned me to replace all the bolts with arp ,even though they have never been torqued,he told me in the 70's they went thru a rash of windowing new motors and was told by holman moody that of the ford rod bolts at least 25 percent were fualty out of the box,that would ruin your day to say the least,,huh ? Tim K
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Also, there is an S between the 8 & the C...**)
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also forged pistons,and an electronically balanced crank shaft on the SCJ;all reliability issues not HP ones. chuck
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The same naming convention was applied to the 429 engine as well. That is, the performance motors were either a CJ or a SCJ. For this family of motors, the SCJ actually got four-bolt mains and then there was that same 5 horsepower difference. I think, but don't remember, that the SCJ would come in cars optioned with the "drag pack."
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Quote:
It is one of those urban legends that was started years ago and is hard to kill. The only need for the different balancing procedures (like the hatchet counterweight) on the SCJ's was to allow for the heavier cap-screw connecting rods. Also, the CJ and SCJ 428s were both rated at 335 hp. No difference. The 429 CJ was 370 hp and the SCJ was 375 hp. HTH, Mike |
Time for some recent SCJ pictures....
Note the Valve Covers.... The Motor - #1 The Motor #2 The Motor #3 The Intake #4 The Heads #5 The Rods #6 The Rods #7 The Crank #8 The Rods/Pistons #9 The Heads #10 The Front External Balance Weight Front Balancer #12 Piston again #13 The Block #14 More Block Date Code #15 Block again #16 Heads again #17 Rods #18 Balancer again #19 Valve Cover Compare/Size #20 Bottom End #21 Top End #22 Engine #23 Engine #24 Completed #25 |
George,
I really enjoyed your picture tour. They are worth 20 pages of verbal descriptions. I have a question. Did all of the Lemans rods use the "tri-lobe" bolts from the factory? I assume you must re tap the rods when using the ARP bolts.. no? Thanks, Steve:) |
Steve,
I think I can field this one for George. 427 LeMans rods and 428 SCJ rods differ in the type of rod bolts they used. The SCJ rod used a bolt that had a shorter bolt head for added clearance in the block. Yes, I do run a chase tap thru the bolt holes when installing new aftermarket bolts. Also check the fit of the dowels in both sides of the rods and replace when needed. And re-size the rods. HTH, Mike |
Hi FE fans:
One small addition to the legend of the SCJ. When you walked into a Ford dealership and asked the saleslpeople to hand over the keys to a Cobra Jet, that is what you got. Std CJ that could be optioned to fill a good size phone book. However, if you actually sat down with the salesman and asked to go through the options manual and specified a locking differential with a 3,91 or 4,30 ratio, everything else changed. It was built into the system because the tech people at Ford figured correctly that someone who wanted a low ratio and a 4-speed and eliminated all fancy amenities, knew what he was doing and Ford knew where he was going, of course. To the nearest drag strip or stoplight grand prix to eat other people´s lunches. The SCJ came in he car and no questions asked. It had all been tested a year before in the Shelby GT-500KR and in a few select cars built by the good people at TASCA Ford. Just my 2 cents. |
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