Hydraulic Roller Camshaft

[RestoCreations]

I purchased a hydraulic roller camshaft with specs: 220/226 duration .567/.610 lift on a 110

At the time, this cam was going to go into the 428 stroker engine that i was building. However, all of that changed when i purchased the Ironman Kirkham.

Now i am building the 427FE to 527 stroker and i have had some different opinions passed around on this cam.
If you have experience with a FE Stroker please chime in.

Some think the cam will be great for the street, while others seem to think that it has far too little duration and will not run well in the 527 stroker.
This was not a cheap cam, but i did purchase it from summit less than a year ago, so they will still take it back should i decide not to use it. I am of course going to get my engine shops opinion as well, but the more suggestions from experienced FE builders, the better.

Thanks

[ERA Chas]

That's a very small cam for 527 cubic inches. You have to tell us how you will use it.

[FWB]

i will have to agree it is a very small cam for your combo. i'll post a pic of my cam card i run in my 468...

[FWB]

here's my cam card.....

[FWB]

i would send it back and talk to KC racing for a cam that will play nice with your build. if you already have a certain valve spring on your heads you will have to stay within those constraints or redo the heads with springs compatible for the cam chosen. lots of variables to consider depending on what is in the motor, heads, springs, rockers etc, an easy decision to use X,Y, or Z type of cam is not able to be made without a good evaluation of the components you already have.

[Excaliber]

To small, sounds to me like, but whadda I know...

I'm running a 292, I like the "lumpy idle", not the best for the street DEPENDING on your gear ratios (1st and 5th primarily). The cam works well with the new TKO600 gears, not so much with my old close ratio top loader. A bunch of things to consider when choosing a cam profile.

[RestoCreations]

Thanks! Just another screw up that was part of the dealings with company xxx. At least i can return this to summit.

[Dwight]

I'm running a small block, but

the last time I made a lot of changes I called Keith and asked him what I needed.

I told him my Cobra was a street car but I did not want to be embarrassed at the street light by a Corvette.

I wanted hp but I needed a motor that would let me cruise at low rpms.

I bought the heads and cam from him. Ordered a few other parts from Summit.

It's the best motor I've every owned. Cruise at low rpm without a trailer hitch jerk. 402 rear wheel hp and 416 tq. All most as fast as a big block.

I love it.

So I strongly recommend that you call Keith Craft and discuss what you want in a motor / Cobra.

The Custom Comp cam was cheaper from KC that any other source. The Brodix heads are bad to the bone.

Dwight

[RodKnock]

Way too small for a 527, even way too small for a 482. Ask an expert like KC, but when shopping for my 482, a 23x/24x is/was a small cam with an LSA of 112. 24x/25x is/was a medium-sized cam and a 25x/26x would be a large cam. Again for a 482. With the 527 I would be tempted to go with the 25x/26x cam. My hydraulic roller, which has a duration of 245/252 and lift of .631/.650 seems just about spot on, maybe I could have gone a little bigger. A very docile cam.

Anything over .650 lift is big, IMHO. FWB's cam is big, but ask the FE experts. Not me.

[olddog]

Most of us Cobra junkies have a too much ain't enough mentality. A few people come along and buy what us nuts love and they end up hating the car. So, it depends on what you want.

Although I agree the cam is too small for my taste, here is what I would expect from it. First I'm more of a couch hot rodder and no expert. If you had good flowing heads, I would expect that cam to idle very smooth. It should start making good torque not far above idle and pull strong to at least 3500 maybe 4000 rpm if the heads flow real good. BY 5000 rpm I would expect it to be out of breath. I would guess the Hp to peak around 5000 rpm. With good heads that engine should make 650 lb-ft of torque. The cam pretty much decides where in the rpm range the torque will be made.

With that many cid, it would not be a dog, you just wouldn't reach the full potential of what you could have with a different cam. With that much engine, the car would be easier to drive than the radical stuff most go with. So be honest with yourself on what you would like.

[RestoCreations]

Thanks! I have asked several expert FE builders thus far and they are going to get back to me in the near future. I thought there might be a few resident experts on the forum as well and that is why i posted this question here in the FE section where they would most likely lurk.

Small block strokers and big block strokers are different animals. While i have built several small block engines, this is my first FE motor.

So, for those with 427 FE based strokers, what cam are you using and with what compression ratio?
Do you like it? Would you change anything about it?

My car will be used on the street. I am used to using cams in small blocks that have a durations of around 240 max with a 10:1 compression ratio, but for the most part i have used cams with duration in the 220s. I guess i dont fully understand why i can use a 218/218 duration cam in a 302 and turn 6,000 rpm all day long, yet according to what i am hearing, the same duration cam will go flat several thousand rpms before in a FE stroker. Ive used low duration cams in 427 chevrolets-222/226 and they turn all the way to 6500 with stock cast heads without issue.

This engine will have around 10.2:1-10.5:1 compression ratio. I spent a small fortune on the big bore aluminum shelby block and i purchased 72cc edelbrock aluminum heads to go with it. I will only use this car for street use but i still dont want to use a cam that will not pull hard off the line to 6,500rpm. I dont care about spinning the engine past 6500 and i could care less how fast the car is above about 70mph. Due to this being a 527 stroker motor, i dont see why there would be any issues with torque.
My last replica was around 2400 pds with a 331 stroker with 185cc AFR heads and a 228/236 duration camshaft on a 110 lobe seperation(330 at the rear wheels) I used a real dyno . The car was probably the scariest thing i have ever driven. I assume this engine will have around 150-200 more horsepower at the wheels and due to the weight of the car, most of it will not be useable.

[Excaliber]

With a hydro roller I would expect rpm limitations to be under 6,000 rpm. Of course you CAN get that rpm number up but the associated hardware costs will increase dramatically if your looking for over 6. With a big block under 6 will be fine, you'll be looking for better tires in no time, which is what I would spend the money in the first place.

[Fordzilla]

Olddog is spot on. I would say good idle & gobs of torque. A good pic for a street engine. Talk to an experienced builder & be realistic with what you are going to do with the car. I had Pops Performance build me a 385 series based monster stroker & I thought the cam wasn't enough but was wrong. 228-238 duration, 590-614 lift. I got 637 pounds of torque at 2700 rpm. Pulls like a missle up to 5500 rpm. Couldn't have asked for a better street monster & perfect cam selection for my application- a street terror. I have the dyno results posted under another thread titled "521 torque monster". (or something like that). Anyway, talk to an actual builder.
That's my .02

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

Looks to me by the spec sheet that you have a solid roller there. I'm surprised nobody else spotted this. It will have different characteristics than a hydraulic roller.

Sorry, different poster. I should read who's posting what. The spec chart is for somebody else's cam. Different animal.
I don't think they will take it back. That's why some guys have many cams on their shelf.

[blykins]

Way too small for a 527.....way too small for a 482.....way too small for a 445... LOL

For a 527ci engine, if you want a nice cruiser that peaks at about 5500, you'll need about 250-255 degrees of duration at .050". That would be a hydraulic roller.

If you wanted a solid roller, you would need to add about 10 degrees to that to account for the lash take-up on a solid cam.

(Yes, I'm an FE builder.... )

[olddog]

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

My car will be used on the street. I am used to using cams in small blocks that have a durations of around 240 max with a 10:1 compression ratio, but for the most part i have used cams with duration in the 220s. I guess i dont fully understand why i can use a 218/218 duration cam in a 302 and turn 6,000 rpm all day long, yet according to what i am hearing, the same duration cam will go flat several thousand rpms before in a FE stroker. Ive used low duration cams in 427 chevrolets-222/226 and they turn all the way to 6500 with stock cast heads without issue.

This engine will have around 10.2:1-10.5:1 compression ratio. I spent a small fortune on the big bore aluminum shelby block and i purchased 72cc edelbrock aluminum heads to go with it. I will only use this car for street use but i still dont want to use a cam that will not pull hard off the line to 6,500rpm. I dont care about spinning the engine past 6500 and i could care less how fast the car is above about 70mph. Due to this being a 527 stroker motor, i dont see why there would be any issues with torque.
My last replica was around 2400 pds with a 331 stroker with 185cc AFR heads and a 228/236 duration camshaft on a 110 lobe seperation(330 at the rear wheels) I used a real dyno . The car was probably the scariest thing i have ever driven. I assume this engine will have around 150-200 more horsepower at the wheels and due to the weight of the car, most of it will not be useable.

I have not owned a BB since the early 1980's, and never had anything that big.

1) I wouldn't want to spin that long stroke monster over 6K. It will live a lot longer if you target no more than 5500.

2) I may get flamed, but high duration cams is a crutch for poor flowing heads. The first FE was 331 cid. Ford did all the head development for the 427. Edel may have improved over the original Ford work, but getting enough flow for 527 cid through FE heads is not easy.

[Excaliber]

I don't see it as a "crutch", I see the potential problem as the various parts not working well together. Same thing, I guess. The point is, a good cam or good heads with a lousy intake or lousy exhaust defeats the end result.

Some combinations work better than others. It takes a lot of experience to figure out what those "magic" components are that work well together. When I built my engine I leaned heavily on Gessford Machine to identify what would work well for my application. Gear ratio's, expected use, etc. Talking to a single supplier (like a cam supplier or Jegs tech department) is not going to reap the same benefits of a serious engine builder.

Gotta look at the big picture, identify the bottle necks, the limitations, the cost, it's a tall order.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

Way too small for a 527.....way too small for a 482.....way too small for a 445... LOL

For a 527ci engine, if you want a nice cruiser that peaks at about 5500, you'll need about 250-255 degrees of duration at .050". That would be a hydraulic roller.

(Yes, I'm an FE builder.... )

That's what I said and I'm NOT an FE builder. BUT, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy when a smart guy like Brent agrees with me.

[Excaliber]

Well OK RodKnock, you done good!

My Dad used to do a little gold mining and he always said, "I don't know where the gold is, but I know where it isn't."

Reminds me of this cam, the numbers are SO small it's a safe bet THAT cam won't work, I could name a bunch of cam's that won't work. The question is, what WILL work? Where is the gold? That be the tough question!

[decooney]

Originally Posted by RestoCreations

I purchased a hydraulic roller camshaft with specs: 220/226 duration .567/.610 lift on a 110. At the time, this cam was going to go into the 428 stroker engine that i was building. However, all of that changed when i purchased the Ironman Kirkham. Now i am building the 427 FE to 527 stroker

Looking at your opening comments - you changed the gameplan. The cam was intended for a different motor setup, originally - right?. Now you are going up to a 527 and have questions about the cam. You might consider leaving it to your pro FE motor builder to provide you with the right cam for your intended use, WOW...ESPECIALLY if you've decided to step all the way up to a 527; oh my, get ready to buy some diapers and a passenger grab handle too along with that 527. Let us know how it turns out.