427 FE vs 351w, advantages?

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

CobraEd,,,, I did get a chuckle out of that post.

You can always count on me !


.

[RICK LAKE]

I know they are not cheap but Shelby blocks are my far the better block now that all the poor machine work has been corrected. The engineering is go for 2,500 hp. Neither of the other 2 will hold that number. dual bolts to each main cap. there is not walking of the bottom end. Head studs go down to the main cap area instead of pulling on the cylinder walls and pulling them out of round. Oiling system is a center oiler with most going to the crank shaft and rods. The bad side is cost of the block and the fact of paying for the studs for the heads. I still have the studs, side bolts, main studs converted to ARP bolts and fasteners. Weight wise a complete 482 motor is 496 pounds. this is small block weight. If looking for orginal look, Ponds or genesis does have the correct date casted into the block for 65 or 66 year. 14 years of racing and abuse, the block is still in great shape. CSX#58 is still running. CSX#428 will be built this year with more power. Looking forward to another 15 years of abuse. Rick L.

[Slick61]

Originally Posted by blykins

If you haven't ridden in a Cobra with about 600hp/600lb-ft, I suggest you do so.

indeed...

I always find the big block/small block argument entertaining, to say the least.

I have several friends running big blocks. One is running a 552 that's probably putting out somewhere north of 900 hp. But even HE will admit that mine is one of the meanest sounding- of the dozen or so running around town, & he knows when I'm coming from about a mile away.

I originally wanted a big block. But when I found my Backdraft with a KCR all-aluminum, Dart-blocked 427 Windsor stroker, I was smitten. With 612 hp & 615 lb-ft of torque, it STILL scares the crap out of me to this day. The all-aluminum engine gives me a near-perfect 50/50 weight distribution, and the car weighs in somewhere around 2200-2300 lbs. But the two things I like best about the stroked small block are: 1) I actually have room to work on the engine... plug changes, etc. are pretty easily accomplished... and 2) there's more room for air circulation in the engine compartment- I've had no overheating issues (either the engine OR myself!)

In the end, it's a personal choice/decision... no right or wrong... just what's right for YOU! Enjoy!

[CobraEd]

Originally Posted by Slick61

indeed...

I always find the big block/small block argument entertaining, to say the least.

I have several friends running big blocks. One is running a 552 that's probably putting out somewhere north of 900 hp. But even HE will admit that mine is one of the meanest sounding- of the dozen or so running around town, & he knows when I'm coming from about a mile away.

I originally wanted a big block. But when I found my Backdraft with a KCR all-aluminum, Dart-blocked 427 Windsor stroker, I was smitten. With 612 hp & 615 lb-ft of torque, it STILL scares the crap out of me to this day. The all-aluminum engine gives me a near-perfect 50/50 weight distribution, and the car weighs in somewhere around 2200-2300 lbs. But the two things I like best about the stroked small block are: 1) I actually have room to work on the engine... plug changes, etc. are pretty easily accomplished... and 2) there's more room for air circulation in the engine compartment- I've had no overheating issues (either the engine OR myself!)

In the end, it's a personal choice/decision... no right or wrong... just what's right for YOU! Enjoy!

Well there ya go!!!!


.

[Jerry Clayton]

Spark plugs on an FE are easier to get to than on an Windsor

[CobraEd]

Spark plugs are easier to get to on a 426 Hemi than an FE !


.

[Jerry Clayton]

thats for sure---except maybe by the brake booster but you might get some oil into the cylinder

[Barry_R]

There is an "easy change plug option" for the FE. It includes cool valve covers and requires and extra camshaft....

[Barry_R]

The rotating mass might be important in an on/off throttle road race environment where instant response is an advantage for the driver. It is certainly important where the weight limits the potential for higher RPM in a professional race application due to durability concerns. But in a street oriented vehicle where RPM is limited by choice to +/-7000, it ain't gonna mean squat.

Its cylinder heads, intake, cam, and ring seal. For a few years at the Engine Masters we ran under rules that were scored by average power/torque divided by cubic inches. It compared every engine family prettey evenly against ever other. Last year we had LS1s going against FEs, going against 327 Chevys, going against Clevelands. It was pretty impressive to see how closely the various designs matched up considering how different they were on the outside.

[Jerry Clayton]

The plugs are harder to change on the Windsors than the FEs


Rotational weight will have a bigger impact on slowing for a corner than on acceration

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Barry_R

There is an "easy change plug option" for the FE. It includes cool valve covers and requires and extra camshaft....

I like how Barry thinks. An extra camshaft and cool valve covers are at the top of my list for my next engine build.

[vector1]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

The plugs are harder to change on the Windsors than the FEs


Rotational weight will have a bigger impact on slowing for a corner than on acceration

how could that be, i spend much more time accelerating then braking.

[RICK LAKE]

Barry R. Barry you have built STREET motors and done very well. The 4 questions are, How much you left on the table and why not built more torque in the bottom end? I am gald that they have 2 divisions now.
Why not build a stroker with 4.28 bore and 4.375 crank. This motor does not know what it is beening hooked to but will make big power on the bottom end and still get you HP in the 6,000 range.
Last question, are your heads swirl or straight flow into the cylinders? Good luck with the EMC this year. Rick L.

[Barry_R]

Rick
The two divisions are at the request of some of the entrants. Guys wanted to see what would happen in an "all out" environment with race heads, unlimited compression and Q16 fuel. I also think its a mistake, diluting the contest with two "winners" and taking away from teh street flavor of the original concept.

I am entered in the street class this year. In large part because I simply do not think I can compete against a full on canted valve race head combination - such as Ford "Cup" engine stuff, BT Thor or 4.3s, LS "Mozez" heads and the like - all of which are legal in the "extreme" class.

I am going to continue developing on my wedge FE stuff. Last year I left a lot "on the stand" due to the contest fuel, which required a lot less timing than I was running at home on 93 octane pump fuel. In addition I was running a carb under restrictive throttle size rules competing against EFI packages with no limit on throttle bore. This year they made some changes that will let me add EFI to this engine. I KNOW that adding airflow to last years package gained nearly 100 points duing testing.

I have the flow into the engine as straight as I can get it, concentrating on centering the intake valve up over the piston. I have no idea at all if it swirls, but if it does it's not intentional.

The thing made nearly 500lbs of torque at 2500 last year before I had to pull timing - see the fuel reference above. That's diesel territory.....

[Jerry Clayton]

Centering the intake over the piston---that's one area that is hard to do on an FE unless you cut the head in the middle and lengthen it----not so difficylt on the windsors to off set head forward or back--

However---the bbc flowed better into the cylinder from the crooked port than the straighter ones---

With efi---will the rules allow you to reverse flow the engine? All the exhaust in the center up high where the intake normally sets???and injectors outside where exhaust was??

[RICK LAKE]

Barry R. I have a TWM setup with 58MM throttle bodies. I know they are worth about 30hp and up to 40ft of torque. Mid range power should beat most motors with a carb and fall off at higher rpms. If 6,500 is all the rpm you might still be producing more power and not have topped out. Camshaft design is very important to this and getting it right. I will call about other info on this. FI systems are allowed. Fine tuning the system would be to increase the stacks. You are looking at about 3,600cfm. I think this is more than enough air for your motor. 50- 60 pound injectors. ECU and wiring are on you. I am going to buy a harness for this system. Can't see why you couldn't get a little help from FAST. Rick L.

[FighterJock]

I'm having the same dilemma as avmaviator, FE or 351w. I know I want 427, and I'm pretty sure I want a big block, but cost could be a factor. So that begs the question... Hp and torque being what they are in each engine, how much different would it cost to setup an FFR with each type? I've seen a few crated 351s from Summit and Jegs in the order of 10-12k while I saw genesis has FEs around 12-14k... Is that really all were talking? A difference of a few thousand $'s? Or (yep, just joined the forum today so pardon the new guy ignorance) is there something else I'm missing in what it will cost? Carbs and other odds and ends couldn't be that much different cost wise right? How bout brakes? Heavier nose need 12.8s vs 11s for the FE? Since I've already resolved myself to put about 55k or so into the car and a year or more building it, is the cost really that much different for an fe? Seems the benefits out weigh the few extra bucks from what you guys are saying. You've almost convinced me in just under 10 minutes of reading that fe is the way to go.
Thanks for all the tips guys!

-Dave

[Mother]

Well, as for wanting torque and horse power, I decided to go both. The 460 BB motor / tranny / clutch / 9 inch Currie cost me over 50 grand installed. That did not include suspension, and the rest of the car. Is it a hand-full? The skid marks in my undies atest to the awsome thrill I get driving the car on the street, or track. Do I race stoplight to stop-light? No!!! I do know whats under the bonnet, and I have nothing to prove. And, I run 308's for a final. Crank HP is 740 and torque is 640. These measurements are at 5500 RPM. The Motor was built by "New Generation Engines" of Fonthill Ontario Canada. The unit is not a stroker. The engine idles at 850 RPM and produces 90 ft pounds of oil presure at idle. It has been converted to a 4 bolt splayed mains. The rest is just numbers. The motor runs very hard. The weight option in the car is 51/49. It sticks like glue in the corners, and goes like 773H in the straights. It sounds nasty, and keeps my driveway free of small stones.

[bulletbrown]

The biggest question is what are you going to use your Cobra for? Drag racing, tracking or ... That is the first question Jerry asked me. The right combination of components to match your need is the most important thing. I am sure that Keith, Barry or Jerry can build you any horsepower you want, but will it match your needs? Why do I like FEs? They are like a Harley - they sound great!! The low end torque is a hoot to drive in traffic. I drive my car on the street and has a great fun factor. It's reliable and I feel I got the best bang for my buck. It's been 3 years since Jerry built my engine and almost 10,000 miles and it's never failed. I often see mismatched combinations of parts and drivability and reliability become a problem. My only advice would be to listen to the pros - they will save you aggravation and money in the long run. Thanks again Jerry.