Hot engine hard to re-start Vapor Lock???

[BAsque1]

I know this thread has been abundantly discussed, but I would like to revisit it and get new perspectives. I drive my 427 FE S/O equipped with a Holley 770 carb. It is fed via a mechanical pump with constant 7lbs of pressure. I removed a faulty and not needed fuel pressure regulator and installed a brand new in line gas filter.

Tested the car for about 1 hr and the temp remained between 180-200 F. If I turn the engine off it is really hard to restart, the cooling fans deploy automatically and after 15 minutes or so it will start. This is really annoying and at times embarrasing.

Conventional wisdom points to possible over boiling of the gas in the line or gas bowls in the carb, hence vapor lock. I have been suggested to distance the fuel lines as much as possible to heat radiation areas in the engine, try but cannot be done 100%. Others suggest a phenolic carb spacer, I can only use a 1/2" spacer due to hood and air cleaner clearance, I already have a turkey pan.

I used to have a similar problem back in the 60's with a rally Volvo in Puerto Rico and I installed a cool can filled with dry ice, it worked fine then. I am in NY now and I was wondering if this could improve my situation.
I will be thankful for your input.
Cheers
Lou

[Bill Bess]

Take a look down the carb and pump it after you shut it off when it's hot..see if your getting gas. Next check the timing..maybe too far advanced?
Mine sometimes hesitates to crank fast when it's a little hot, but only when I've been running hard and shut it down and the temp. goes up and I go to restart it..but it always starts.
Bill

[charles roybal]

"Heat Soak" issues....carb is getting hot from transfer of heat from motor boiling gas and dumping into motor. I had this issue...wooden carb spacer solved this problem.

[BAsque1]

Hi Charles:
This is what everyone is telling me I will order the spacer. Any difference between phenolic and wood? I had phenolic before and it is great. Tks for your insight.
Cheers
Lou

[BAsque1]

Hi Bill
I am a bit confused, do you mean like dieseling after I turn it off? I checked the timing and it is ok.

[jhv48]

Get the spacer and it will solve a majority of the problem.

Car still might run ragged on hot restart for a mile or two until fresh cold fuel can cool the carb down. But it will help.

[bobcowan]

What do you mean by, "Hard to start"? If the engine turns over like it usully does but won't fire, then it probably is hot fuel. Use a infrared thermometer on the carb bowl and see what you get.

But if it's slow to turn over, then it's probably an electrical issue. Like a hot starter or battery cables that are too small.

For a hot fuel issue, there's a couple of fairly simple answers. For the carb, I would use a heat shield like this one Holley 108-70 - Holley Carburetor Heat Shield - Overview - SummitRacing.com I would start without a phenolic spacer and see how it goes. If it was still too hot I would add a phenolic spacer.

There are a number of heat shields available for the fuel line. Inexpensive and easy to apply.

If it's really bad, consider adding a return line.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by BAsque1

Hi BillI checked the timing and it is ok.

Spins but won't start, or hard to turn over? How many degrees timing at idle?

[charles roybal]

Originally Posted by BAsque1

Hi Charles:
This is what everyone is telling me I will order the spacer. Any difference between phenolic and wood? I had phenolic before and it is great. Tks for your insight.
Cheers
Lou

I was told wood is best insulator...I am very pleased..best $27.00 I have ever spent...found mine on Jegg. shttp://www.jegs.com/p/Edelbrock/Edelbrock-Carburetor-Spacers-Wood-Design/743637/10002/-1
.

[Bill Bess]

Lou, what I meant was, when a problem exists..do the basics first before going off on perhaps the wrong course. Gas supply, Ignition timing, Starter, voltage drop etc. Just make sure everything is where it should be. Sometimes a simple adjustment is all you need.
On my car I solved a ton of heat issues when I installed the ford Taurus 2-speed fan, now it runs cooler all the time and I can control heat spikes using the hi-speed portion of the fan.
Good luck, Bill

[gsharapa]

All good recomendations and 1 other to consider is what kind of gas are you putting in it. Try to stay away from gas with methanol blend in it. Methanol is alcohol and boils at a much lower temperature then gas without it. I'm running a 496 all aluminum FE with Quick Fuel 850 and can not run a spacer. When I was at Texas Cobra meet this spring temps were low 90s and my car was fine until I put some gas in it up in Austin at a Shell station. Methanol blend and a bunch of us got it and had your concern until we put some high octane fuel in. I bought two 5 gallon jugs of 107 octane fuel and put 5 gallons in it and no more concern. Had the car out a few time since in 90 plus and again no issues....so check that fuel station you are filling up at.

[BDR879]

I'm fighting the same issue on my 428 FE.

Going to install a 1/2" wood spacer as mentioned before as well as swap out my mechanical pump for an electric pump.

As far as spacers go wood is best, phenolic resin in next, with the aluminum ones being a distant last.

[Muldoon]

testing reply

[Austin_Snake]

Perhaps it is the starter. I was having trouble restarting the car after it was hot and turnd out the starter was going out. Probably does not help having that hot exhaust next to it. The replacement has a thermal blanket form DEI on it so hopefully this one wil llast more than 3 years.
Good luck,
Richard

[charles roybal]

Originally Posted by Austin_Snake

Perhaps it is the starter. I was having trouble restarting the car after it was hot and turnd out the starter was going out. Probably does not help having that hot exhaust next to it. The replacement has a thermal blanket form DEI on it so hopefully this one wil llast more than 3 years.
Good luck,
Richard

Do you have your battery mounted in trunk? You may need larger battery cable..common problem.

[charles roybal]

Originally Posted by gsharapa

All good recomendations and 1 other to consider is what kind of gas are you putting in it. Try to stay away from gas with methanol blend in it. Methanol is alcohol and boils at a much lower temperature then gas without it. I'm running a 496 all aluminum FE with Quick Fuel 850 and can not run a spacer. When I was at Texas Cobra meet this spring temps were low 90s and my car was fine until I put some gas in it up in Austin at a Shell station. Methanol blend and a bunch of us got it and had your concern until we put some high octane fuel in. I bought two 5 gallon jugs of 107 octane fuel and put 5 gallons in it and no more concern. Had the car out a few time since in 90 plus and again no issues....so check that fuel station you are filling up at.

x2 this happened to me too at TCC.

[BAsque1]

Originally Posted by Bill Bess

Lou, what I meant was, when a problem exists..do the basics first before going off on perhaps the wrong course. Gas supply, Ignition timing, Starter, voltage drop etc. Just make sure everything is where it should be. Sometimes a simple adjustment is all you need.
On my car I solved a ton of heat issues when I installed the ford Taurus 2-speed fan, now it runs cooler all the time and I can control heat spikes using the hi-speed portion of the fan.
Good luck, Bill

Hi Bill:
Oh I know, I removed the faulty gas pressure regulator which had no business being there to begin with; I have a mecahnical gas pump. The venting of the tank was verified, the in line filter was changed, the timng was verified, the starter is high torque brand new and heat shileded, the battery is fine no voltage drop. Now that removed the gas preas. regulator the car runs much better, however, you can feel the heat from the engine which could cause the vapor lock. After a while it starts fine though. I appreciate your input though. tks man
Lou

[BAsque1]

Originally Posted by gsharapa

All good recomendations and 1 other to consider is what kind of gas are you putting in it. Try to stay away from gas with methanol blend in it. Methanol is alcohol and boils at a much lower temperature then gas without it. I'm running a 496 all aluminum FE with Quick Fuel 850 and can not run a spacer. When I was at Texas Cobra meet this spring temps were low 90s and my car was fine until I put some gas in it up in Austin at a Shell station. Methanol blend and a bunch of us got it and had your concern until we put some high octane fuel in. I bought two 5 gallon jugs of 107 octane fuel and put 5 gallons in it and no more concern. Had the car out a few time since in 90 plus and again no issues....so check that fuel station you are filling up at.

Hi Gary:
Well I use Gulf 93 and I put some octane booster, about the methanol, there is not much choice up here in the NE just about every gas available has 10% methanol.
I thought about possible water in the gas but that would have affected my other three cars and nothing they are fine.
I will keep a more aware eye on this tks man.
Lou

[Dinobyte]

I recommend a fuel return line...

I run both a mechanical and electric pump.

When I added the fuel return line, it worked like a charm and solved the same issues you are having.

[BDR879]

Originally Posted by Dinobyte

I recommend a fuel return line...

I run both a mechanical and electric pump.

When I added the fuel return line, it worked like a charm and solved the same issues you are having.

Dino,

I'm working through the same issue on my BDR and this option is the next on the table. A couple of Q's for you:

- Does your return line loop back from the carb back to the tank (long loop) or is it routed from the outlet of the elect pump back to the tank((short loop)?
- What elect pump did you use?
- Does the elect pump flow through the mech. pump?

Thanks