Value of a 1972 427 side oiler Service Block???

[dtmaso]

Thanks, RodKnock and FWB .... !

Well FWB, the rest of the car is, well, okay at best. A standard Superformance Mark III, yet dirty on the outside, seeping oil from the valve covers, oil pan, at least one of the oil galley plugs down below, and gasoline from the carb... just dirty over all and in need of attention. Worst of all, it wouldn't fire up. All this with less than 2k miles from build. Now, in defense of the 'proxy' seller, this may be no big deal - but certainly not what one travels several hundred miles to see. I take that impression and couple it with discovering it to actually be a 1972 service block and I'm pretty much looking the other direction. That is unless I find convincing, objective information that I'm NOT passing up the best thing that's out there in this market at this time. There may be some potential registration issues that also make this a difficult choice.

The 'Other direction' is this: I really like a well sorted top oiler closer to my home, but as nice as it is the price is too much - period. It is, by my standard, the finest car I've seen yet in it's planning and execution of build - just too bad it's a top oiler and so much more money than a side oiler car.

To RodKnock,
Unfortunately, the top oiler has a more expensive asking price than the side oiler. The top oiler is an overall better car in my opinion. I just don't want to pass up a side oiler, even if it appears iffy, for a top oiler that's much more expensive.

[car4jim]

How about a side-oiler coffee table. Case of beer. Call it a day and keep looking for that best-value Cobra!

[dtmaso]

Originally Posted by car4jim

How about a side-oiler coffee table. Case of beer. Call it a day and keep looking for that best-value Cobra!

That from a man with a Kirkham side oiler? Pass me another beer (hic!).

[elmariachi]

Honestly I think you are placing too much emphasis on the oiling system. As has been noted, the side oiler block casting was meant to feed the crank at NASCAR and LeMans-level rpms, not the type of rpms you are going to see sustained in a Cobra. A well built top oiler is a great engine, and assuming you have a budget, I would focus on buying the nicest, most well-appointed Cobra with the best paint job and best engine build paperwork. A 2k mile Superformance that is anything but spotless should be avoided for two reasons: 1. An owner who let's a 2k mile car sit dirty and leaking is also an owner who may have cut corners in other areas (like engine build quality) and 2. There are HUNDREDS of cars for sale out there which need zero apology or elbow grease. Why start your Cobra ownership with headaches and bloody knuckles?

Its a buyer's market, if a car is overpriced I would not get emotionally attached, just move on until you find another car that suits you. Just my 2 cents.....

[dtmaso]

I think you hit the nail on the head, elmariachi. Everyone, thanks for your honest opinions!

I'll keep you all posted.

[FWB]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Honestly I think you are placing too much emphasis on the oiling system. As has been noted, the side oiler block casting was meant to feed the crank at NASCAR and LeMans-level rpms, not the type of rpms you are going to see sustained in a Cobra. A well built top oiler is a great engine, and assuming you have a budget, I would focus on buying the nicest, most well-appointed Cobra with the best paint job and best engine build paperwork. A 2k mile Superformance that is anything but spotless should be avoided for two reasons: 1. An owner who let's a 2k mile car sit dirty and leaking is also an owner who may have cut corners in other areas (like engine build quality) and 2. There are HUNDREDS of cars for sale out there which need zero apology or elbow grease. Why start your Cobra ownership with headaches and bloody knuckles?

Its a buyer's market, if a car is overpriced I would not get emotionally attached, just move on until you find another car that suits you. Just my 2 cents.....

Ditto.........

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

I'll also advise not to get too hung up on the engine. The Cobra's build quality and condition is paramount, as the engine can always be changed/replaced upon the condition of your wallet. I'd take a Kirkham with a stock 302 over anything else with a questionable side oiler. I'd just keep the hood closed in public until I healed enough for the FE. Good luck. There are many quality Cobras out there looking for new homes.

[dtmaso]

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

I'll also advise not to get too hung up on the engine. The Cobra's build quality and condition is paramount, as the engine can always be changed/replaced upon the condition of your wallet. I'd take a Kirkham with a stock 302 over anything else with a questionable side oiler. I'd just keep the hood closed in public until I healed enough for the FE. Good luck. There are many quality Cobras out there looking for new homes.

Thanks, again to all... I'm getting that.

[DougD]

dtmaso
Do you realize that approx one third of 427 Cobras originally had top oilers?

[Ron Roberts]

There are other differences that needs to be looked at, some marine engines were opposite rotations as the boats back then did not have reverse rotation transmissions. Most marine engines that are cast to SO specs. are drilled as a center oiler. The service block of choice is a 1968 cast block. Last, it was mentioned that the SO was the advent of the need to run 7K for extended periods of time. The Lemans crank was not only crossed drilled but also have a journal from the front of the crank to the rear.

Good luck

[dtmaso]

Originally Posted by Ron Roberts

There are other differences that needs to be looked at, some marine engines were opposite rotations as the boats back then did not have reverse rotation transmissions. Most marine engines that are cast to SO specs. are drilled as a center oiler. The service block of choice is a 1968 cast block. Last, it was mentioned that the SO was the advent of the need to run 7K for extended periods of time. The Lemans crank was not only crossed drilled but also have a journal from the front of the crank to the rear.

Good luck

I heard about the marine engine application - and yesterday found that the well-sorted top oiler that I earlier referred to was previously used in a V-drive boat and its a casting number is C5AE-A. The current owner believed the engine sat backwards in the boat and was crank drive.

Not sure exactly what that means, other than it was suitable enough for him to build up for his car.

[FWB]

Originally Posted by dtmaso

I heard about the marine engine application - and yesterday found that the well-sorted top oiler that I earlier referred to was previously used in a V-drive boat and its a casting number is C5AE-A. The current owner believed the engine sat backwards in the boat and was crank drive.

Not sure exactly what that means, other than it was suitable enough for him to build up for his car.

i wouldn't stress over what the motor was........i have a marine block in my car. it's the same as any hydraulic block FE with all the benefits any 427 has.
i would rather have a well built marine block than a used motor from a car anyway for one reason.......think of how you drive a boat........you place the throttle at a point and leave it there, no high reving, no burnouts......they were a low rpm motor in marine trim. most were never hurt and got pulled out of the boat and still were standard bore.....
stick with the top oiler car.

[Ron Roberts]

Counter rotation blocks require some machining at the rear seal area, yes some are compatible with hyd lifters but the true center oiler on the earily blocks will require a mech. cam and the blocks that will work in a hydraulic cam conf. require a plug or a limiter in the oil journals that feed the lifters and a camer block has extra oil return journal to the valley. You are right when it comes to a center oiler being a good block to use for our application but I have learned from the past - the better the lubrication one has the longer they live.

If you can find a Lemans block it will have the best oiling journals and a higher content of steel in the casting. They are out there - just takes time to find them.

hope this helps

[dtmaso]

Originally Posted by Ron Roberts

...You are right when it comes to a center oiler being a good block to use for our application but I have learned from the past - the better the lubrication one has the longer they live.

If you can find a Lemans block it will have the best oiling journals and a higher content of steel in the casting. They are out there - just takes time to find them.

hope this helps

Thanks Ron,

At this time I'm looking for a complete car and filtering them out based on their engines, attention to detail, options and build quality throughout the car. So far I've narrowed it down to one, and it has an enhanced oiling system. If he's reading this he knows who he his.

However, down the road I'd love to eventually build an original 427 side oiler, and with all the outstanding input from all of you in this club, I have soooo much more information with which to make sound decisions.

You guys are great and I hope to soon be attending a club function with my own car. I've a feeling it won't be long!

[dtmaso]

... As of Monday, July 11, 2011 - I'm now the proud new owner of CSXWNAB's car.

Now I have to come up with a new license plate - but that's another thread...

[WildBill1965]

I have a complete minus 1968 427 out of my sadley sold GTE Cougar SO. It is a hyd engine that I ran a solid lifter cam in. Engine can be put back with stock bore, cross hatch still in cyls. High noglar crank, no cam or intake. Engine was taken out of car before striping and restoring, car was sold and I kept the engine about 12,000 when taken out. Taken apart to do complete machine work, but then kids came along the rest is history. Was going to put it in my cobra but 2 year warrenty convinced me to by Roush. Might be talked in to selling, maybe?

Still love the FE's

Bill