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Date Code: '2L25' with an 'E' above it (two small dots beneath the '2')
'66 427 P 2'
'12 DIF' (foundry)
Absolutely no 'Casting' mark
Screw-in freeze plugs
Side oiler screws along driver side above cross-bolts
Vertical webbing on the outer right side of block.
I've read that this is a 1972 over the counter, service block, and that they had core-shift issues and other reliability problems. And that since they were based on the 1968 block, were drilled for hydraulic rocker system.
It's in a car now so it's impractical to dig deeper for ID numbers, etc. It's allegedly never been bored or damaged (nor is any 'patchwork' evident during inspection).
What's the value of this block?
How would you rank, in order of preference, value and reliability, it compared to a 66 side oiler or a top oiler?
I bought a NOS service block in 1993. The company I purchased it from built the entire engine. I installed it in my car in 1994. I've thrashed it pretty hard over the years and its still performing well!!
Four years ago #2 cylinder wall split. The cylinder wouldn't have split if the intake valve springs hadn't broken and let the valve drop against the piston at 6000+ rpms. The aluminum head took a beating also!
After that failure, #2 cylinder was sleeved and other damaged items were replaced. Today it still runs great and makes a lot of power.
I have no opinion on the value of the block you're asking about. Other folks will chime in with some good information.
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary Cobra, 427 side oiler
Posts: 1,850
Not Ranked
Some data: I have been watching eBay pretty diligently over the last year thinking I might buy another 427 to build up over time. Service-era blocks represented and appearing in photos to be new (NOS) appear every so often and seem to be selling in the $3000-3500 range. Usable and undamaged service blocks seem to sell in the $1000-$2500 range, depending on how much boring range is left in them and how much testing has been done.
My opinion: Clearly, to buy that block as-is without inspecting it is risky. Assuming he has to disassemble to sell, I would think you would need to right to say no if you saw something you disliked upon inspection. Lots of risks here....so if it were me, I wouldn't risk much more than $1K, if that. Not to say that's what its worth, as everyone has different tolerance for risk on these things.
Knowing you can buy a fully-prepped 427 aluminum Pond block from guys like Keith (see here) for around $5k (and Genesis cast blocks are less), that sorta sets the tone for what used 1972 blocks are worth....something considerably less. Maybe its just me, but after owning mine for 3 years, where a $40-60k replica build is concerned, I see no difference in $2k and $5k....that $3k is pittance where maximum performance and maximum mechanical reliability is concerned.
This is in one of the Cobras I'm considering buying. So, I can't very well disassemble it for further inspection. I've seen paperwork from the engine build and if all is correct, it should be a sound engine. I'm just wary of the Service Block reputation - and the fact that it's just NOT original.
The OTHER car I'm looking at is a very well-sorted, well-known Top Oiler.
I've been bent on getting an original side oiler IN a car, but am finding it more difficult to get a car with just the right engine.
Would the engine hierarchy between the three be this?
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary Cobra, 427 side oiler
Posts: 1,850
Not Ranked
You have to decide the value you place on an engine being a side oiler. That's like comparing vanilla and chocolate, everyone has their preference. An engine with verifiable build history using quality components is most important in my opinion. I'd rather have an unbored service block built right with verifiable build sheets than a 1966 original side oiler bored to .030 over or built by some backyard mechanic
Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 6022, navy blue, period correct 427 SO
Posts: 2,154
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmariachi
I'd rather have an unbored service block built right with verifiable build sheets than a 1966 original side oiler bored to .030 over or built by some backyard mechanic
x2
I'd also rather have a side oiler (of any kind) than a top oiler.
Keep in mind, the service blocks do have a few advantages - reinforced ribbed block, some say higher nickel content, although I'm not sure that is proven and can run hydraulic cam and SFT cam (although since you want authenticity, there is only one choice for you )
How many miles on the engine? Was it sonic tested before it was built to detect any core shift issues?
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I'd also rather have a side oiler (of any kind) than a top oiler.
Keep in mind, the service blocks do have a few advantages - reinforced ribbed block, some say higher nickel content, although I'm not sure that is proven and can run hydraulic cam and SFT cam (although since you want authenticity, there is only one choice for you )
How many miles on the engine? Was it sonic tested before it was built to detect any core shift issues?
The odometer shows less than 2k miles.
I haven't been told it was sonic tested, and I haven't seen anything about in what build paperwork I was able to see. I just don't know either way (yet).
My original opinion was the same: rather have a side oiler than any other engine. But the quality of workmanship on the top oiler is professional and stout.
It's kinda like being an ass man who's been sidetracked by a nice chest.
if i read that correctly it's a "P" coded block? i would not let the service block stigma stand in the way of your decision. it will probably outlast you.....
some say the service blocks coded "P" were more desirable. i don't have any insight to back that up....but if you consider these cars are a fair weather vehicles and usually don't get driven a whole heck of a lot of miles. if there is good documentation of the build and its a solid build it will be fine. remember it is a replica, the service block will put out the same HP any other block will.
could it be a marine block? is there a machining mark thru the bulge of the side galleys?
Oops forgot to post this link to a recent thread on the P block over at the FE Forum. There's a link to an auction for an NOS (with original box) P sideoiler block AND NOS NIB steel crank with a price of $6,500.
That's not a manifold-it's the exhaust port of the head. And yes, iron heads will burn paint off and rust quickly.
Ooops! Of course it's the head, I guess my mind wandered toward the exhaust manifold when typing.
Thank you both, ERA Chas and RodKnock...
But now I'm just getting confuser and confuser!!
The fact that this SO is a 'service' block, for better or worse depending on who you talk to, coupled with the poor presentation during my inspection (for some reason wouldn't start), has me quite hesitant.
Conversely, the level of perfection on the top-oiler car that I'm also looking at blows the side-oiler away - except that it's a top-oiler.
So, I'm back to the thrust of my questioning:
Is a 'questionable' side oiler a more reliable, better overall value than an extremely well sorted top oiler?
The deeper I dig on this topic the more difficult my decision has become. (Don't worry, I'm not going on much longer with this thread) Thanks all!
Additionally, is the discoloration at the manifold in this photo normal after so few miles?
yeah thats pretty much normal, the paint goes away there fast. if its a scratch "P" in the back its not a marine block, marine blocks aren't sideoilers.
they oil like a 428 or a 390.
don't stress too much over the motor in the car.....how's the rest of the car?
Ooops! Of course it's the head, I guess my mind wandered toward the exhaust manifold when typing.
Thank you both, ERA Chas and RodKnock...
But now I'm just getting confuser and confuser!!
The fact that this SO is a 'service' block, for better or worse depending on who you talk to, coupled with the poor presentation during my inspection (for some reason wouldn't start), has me quite hesitant.
Conversely, the level of perfection on the top-oiler car that I'm also looking at blows the side-oiler away - except that it's a top-oiler.
So, I'm back to the thrust of my questioning:
Is a 'questionable' side oiler a more reliable, better overall value than an extremely well sorted top oiler?
The deeper I dig on this topic the more difficult my decision has become. (Don't worry, I'm not going on much longer with this thread) Thanks all!
honestly, the side oiler, (and i know i may get spanked by others for this)
has no advantage over the top oiler except will help keep a factory steel crank alive at high rpm. with the introduction of aftermarket crankshafts with SBC journal sizes the SO will give you bragging rights and a lighter wallet after paying for one. if the car is nicer with the top oiler then you've made your decision.
honestly, the side oiler, (and i know i may get spanked by others for this)
has no advantage over the top oiler except will help keep a factory steel crank alive at high rpm. with the introduction of aftermarket crankshafts with SBC journal sizes the SO will give you bragging rights and a lighter wallet after paying for one. if the car is nicer with the top oiler then you've made your decision.
I know I'll get "spanked" for this, but I'd throw away (er, sell) both engines and build a new engine down the road with a Pond or CSX block and Edelbrock heads. Buy the better overall car and don't concentrate too much on the sideoiler versus topoiler engine dilemma. IMHO.
Value of a 1972 427 side oiler Service Block???
The cylinder wouldn't have split if the intake valve springs hadn't broken and let the valve drop against the piston at 6000+ rpms.
The aluminum head took a beating also!
)
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