Ford 430 CID FE?

[YerDugliness]

Hi, guys!

I don't spend much time in the FE forum, being a small block type of guy, but I have a question I hope you can answer.

I've found an old Lincoln Continental (probably late 60's, early 70's) out behind a farm house in a remote area of Kansas. I looked under the hood and could tell it was an FE by the way the heads and intake manifold mated.

Didn't Ford make a 430CID version of the FE that Lincoln used?

If so, are they desirable FE's (I know they won't be TP, HR or SO models, but just wonder what they might have been/could be used for)? Could they be used in a replica?

TIA for whatever information you can provide. If there is potential there, I might approach the land owner and make an offer for the car.

Cheers, Dugly

[Barnsnake]

The 430 wasn't an FE. It was in the MEL series.
Not much hot-rodding potential there. Quite heavy and no cool parts available.

[blykins]

As Barn said, nothing good there....

If you're wanting an FE, I've got some FE parts here and could whittle you out something real nice that wouldn't break the bank.

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by Barnsnake

The 430 wasn't an FE. It was in the MEL series.
Not much hot-rodding potential there. Quite heavy and no cool parts available.

Correct.

Big. Heavy. Lots of unique parts that are hard to find and almost no "go faster" pieces available. Many "unusual" design features like the block that is machined with the head mounting surfaces NOT at 90 degrees to each other (the heads are flat with no combustion chambers, the chambers are in the piston tops and the unusual block surface allows a 10 degreee or so "wedge" chamber.

Run, don't walk.....it could be gaining on you!

[Jerry Clayton]

They were good engines--lots of power but wasn't developed further because Nascar come out with rule that effectively outlawed them--they were available in T birds and Mercurys with 3 dueces--Edsel at 410 cubes 475 tq called E475---I had one in 59 ford 2 door state dept of agriculture car(about as stripped model as ever manufactured) Didn't have any ford trans until mid 62? when 4 speed became available--

But---are heavy--top fuelers used to split them from cam tunnel to mains--
The combustion chamber in the bore(like 348/409 chev) allowed us to experiment with different shapes in the late 50s(sorta like the factories in the 90s)

Just get the rear end unless you want to build a T bucket!!!!

[YerDugliness]

Thanks SO much, guys....you just saved me a whole lot of trouble! Like I said, I'm not much for big-blocks, if I were to want a big block it would be one of the 385 Ford series....I'm a huge fan of the canted valve head design!

To be honest, I was just thinking about others more than myself here. As hard as period FE's are to find, I thought that if I could pick up the car with a usable FE for a song, somebody else might be able to use it.

Originally Posted by blykins

As Barn said, nothing good there....

If you're wanting an FE, I've got some FE parts here and could whittle you out something real nice that wouldn't break the bank.

Thanks, Brent....like I said, small-blocks for me, all the way!

Speaking of which.....I've been Cleveland dreaming a lot lately....PM sent.

Cheers from Dugly

[Roush #1]

I wouldn't be surprised if a MEL motor showed up at Engine Masters....sorta like the Y-Block did. Maybe next year?

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Roush #1

I wouldn't be surprised if a MEL motor showed up at Engine Masters....sorta like the Y-Block did. Maybe next year?

Yea, I was at an alternator party in Ft Stockton and heard that you boys in Waco know how to get big power out of MELs.

[Roush #1]

If they were serving paper clips, I was at the same party

[decapello]

YerDugliness
"I've found an old Lincoln Continental (probably late 60's, early 70's) out behind a farm house in a remote area of Kansas. I looked under the hood and could tell it was an FE by the way the heads and intake manifold mated."

I may be wrong, but the MEL series engines Heads & Intake manifolds do not mate like the FE's. If the intake manifold goes under the valve covers it could still be an FE.

[YerDugliness]

Thanks...I'll be back in the area in a few weeks and will take a better look. I know about the valve cover rail on the intake manifold on the FE, but for the life of me I would have sworn it was that way on the old car. It had a LOT of crap under the hood, though, looked like there had been some kind of animal living there for a LONG time. I'll take a rake or something equally effective at removing the rubble the next time so I can get a better look.

As long as this thread is still active, I have a couple of other questions.

Does anyone know how long the "MEL" series engines were used in the Lincolns? I ask b/c my home area of Kansas is very remote and almost every farmer has an old equipment line out behind the barn, usually with various cars in it as well as unusable farming equipment. One never knows what he might find if he pokes around a bit. Recently I found a 1965 Galaxy with a 289 and a 3 speed manual, too. If that one has the original engine in it, I might approach the landowner....a '65 dated block might well be useful in the future.

How "close" to the FE was the "MEL" series? It sounds like the intake section and heads were different, but did other things, like crankshaft, rods, pistons, cam, water pump, transmission mounting pattern, that sort of thing match up between the two engine series?

Thanks, guys. I'm intrigued by Roush #1's comment....I've long been a fan of the Ford 335 series engines and I was quite surprised to see an M400 engine do so well in the Engine Masters competition last year. We've always been told they were useless except as boat anchors, I'm glad to hear that SOMEONE didn't believe that (I'm assuming Roush #1 referred to the M351/M400 series engines as "Y-block" b/c of the skirted design, and wasn't talking about the old 272/292/312 "Y-blocks" from the 50's and early 60's).

Thanks, guys!

Cheers, Dugly

[FWB]

last MEL in the lincolns was 1968. in 462 cubes.that year the all new 429 was an option, i only know this because i had one. a continental with suicide doors. loved that car. trunk slept 6.....had to yell to the back seat if you wanted your passengers to hear you

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

Thanks...I'll be back in the area in a few weeks and will take a better look. I know about the valve cover rail on the intake manifold on the FE, but for the life of me I would have sworn it was that way on the old car. It had a LOT of crap under the hood, though, looked like there had been some kind of animal living there for a LONG time. I'll take a rake or something equally effective at removing the rubble the next time so I can get a better look.

As long as this thread is still active, I have a couple of other questions.

Does anyone know how long the "MEL" series engines were used in the Lincolns? I ask b/c my home area of Kansas is very remote and almost every farmer has an old equipment line out behind the barn, usually with various cars in it as well as unusable farming equipment. One never knows what he might find if he pokes around a bit. Recently I found a 1965 Galaxy with a 289 and a 3 speed manual, too. If that one has the original engine in it, I might approach the landowner....a '65 dated block might well be useful in the future.

How "close" to the FE was the "MEL" series? It sounds like the intake section and heads were different, but did other things, like crankshaft, rods, pistons, cam, water pump, transmission mounting pattern, that sort of thing match up between the two engine series?

Thanks, guys. I'm intrigued by Roush #1's comment....I've long been a fan of the Ford 335 series engines and I was quite surprised to see an M400 engine do so well in the Engine Masters competition last year. We've always been told they were useless except as boat anchors, I'm glad to hear that SOMEONE didn't believe that (I'm assuming Roush #1 referred to the M351/M400 series engines as "Y-block" b/c of the skirted design, and wasn't talking about the old 272/292/312 "Y-blocks" from the 50's and early 60's).

Thanks, guys!

Cheers, Dugly

The MEL series was around 1958 to 1968. The 385 series replaced them in the Lincolns. Only a very few parts interchange MEL/FE; lifters, some bolts, etc. They had 430 CID in the Lincolns and 59-60 T-Bird (optional) and then went to 462 in the Lincolns (big Linc only, the MK IIIs were always 385 series).

A quick I.D. for the MEL is that the fuel pump in up top in front of the distributor driven by a pushrod off the cam. The valve covers do not cover part of the intake and the valley is "open", i.e. not covered as on an "FE".

The MEls were used in some industrial equipment via Ford Power Products and powered some inter-city busses that were not Diesel. A friend bought an old Flxible with a 430 in the rear.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by YerDugliness

I've long been a fan of the Ford 335 series engines and I was quite surprised to see an M400 engine do so well in the Engine Masters competition last year.

It did well because the tall deck allows a lot of stroke, plus you can you throw the CHI heads on there.....

[Barry_R]

I'm kinda enjoying the idea that an FE in the Engine Masters Challenge has become "mainstream". When I first entered one five years ago even the FE faithful thought I was going out on a bender...

I think I'd have to do a Studebaker or something to get any attention now. That - or win the darn thing.

[Barnsnake]

I can assure you Roush #1 WAS talking about old 272/292/312 "Y-blocks". They're gone to Engine Masters at least twice with one and did amazingly well.

[Roush #1]

Sorry Dugly but I was referring to the 272/292/312 series commonly known as Y-Blocks.

[Jac Mac]

You know Doug, If you want to think outside the square a bit the MEL has a few hidden tricks up its sleeve, like it shares the same bore centers as the 429/460 so with a bit of trickery you could fit the stroker cranks for those into it, Head bolt pattern is the same also, so by blocking off a couple off a couple of coolant passages in the block & a set of clever pistons, sheetmetal intake etc ...who knows what might be possible.
Oil gallerys in block are way too small & need the big drill treatment, definitely different, bell housing bolt pattern is same as FE so no problem for aftermart scattersheild etc.... how do I know all this, well a couple of years ago a guy wheeled one into my shop with a spun bearing & toasted conrod...being in NZ they were rarer than hens teeth, just happened to have a 429 in pieces at same time & 1+1 = 2 etc etc. Someone stuck one in a 57 T-Bird back in the 50's, be a cool ' what the hell is that thing to do with all the bits available now, just for the hell of it...

[smokeonthewater]

Tons of torque - tons of iron. Here's an interesting restoration link.

Chris Craft Commander Forum: The 430 (MEL) Chris Craft big block motor

Eric

[YerDugliness]

Very interesting read, Eric. Thanks! Great photos....guess I should have taken a longer look under all that trash in the engine compartment, no way one would mistake an MEL for an FE, they are SO different.

Only 275 "horsepower", though? I wonder how BIG those horses must have been? Clydesdales?

Cheers from Dugly!!