427 FE S/O prospective buyer tips...?

[Flygirl]

Checking out an ERA Cobra with a '65 427 FE side oiler tomorrow, iron block and mid-rise heads, four speed top loader, professionally done by a well known builder. Runs on 91 octane pump gas. Very low mileage, but not driven much in that time.

In my mind I'm going through some things which I might look for from the drivetrain, not being able to do a compression check or anything like that, nor will I be able to get it up on a rack.

Here's what I'm thinking so far.

—Blue smoke on acceleration: rings
—Blue smoke on extended deceleration in gear, or between gears when shifting: valve guide seals
—Black smoke: running too rich
—White smoke from one sidepipe: water entering the intake system from a bad head gasket. Would also cause it to overheat at higher RPMs, like on the freeway)
—White smoke from both sidepipes: failed intake manifold gasket.

Reading more about these engines has me wondering, they sure sound like they're afflicted with a lot of intake gasket failures and possibly hydrolocking. Yikes!! My little 302s and 289s never gave me problems like that.

What else...

—No chattering or grabbing from the clutch, pedal pressure reasonable and engagement height well adjusted.
—No clunking or odd noises from the rear end (if I'll even be able to hear anything over the mechanical music)
—Shifts smoothly through all gears, doesn't pop out of gear, especially 2nd.

Also...

—I'll take a look for the cross bolted mains and the oil galley on the left side of the engine, and the casting number near the fuel pump on the left side of the block, down low (if I can see it).
—We'll let the engine idle for a bit with the hood closed and the car sitting still. Temp should be around 90C and oil pressure approximately 35 psi. and fans should be operating correctly.
—We'll shut it off and let it heat soak for five or ten minutes, then see if (or how badly) it vapor locks. Engine does have a 1" phenolic carb insulator, single four barrel, turkey pan. Those braided fuel lines look awfully close to the furnace, though.
—Has a fuel pressure gauge, pressure should be about 6psi.

How does that sound? I'm kind of a noob but trying to do my homework.

[Dimis]

Flygirl,

This wouldn't be the car in question... would it?

PhotoPost Classifieds - ERA 427sc - Powered by PhotoPost Classifieds

If it were mine & I was looking for an FE Big block, this ERA would certainly be on my radar.

I'd figure there is nothing in it that can't be fixed for a fee and the "obo" at the end of the 50K means I could probably factor this in

Plus it looks smoking hot in all black!!

Alternatively, you could go back to looking at SB SPFs (as per your previous thread post), they are great a car also.


PS: Your due diligence is thorough I'll grant you that! So enough homework... plan to get burnt and then have the contingency set up ready to cover your ar$e

[Jeff Frigo]

Why can't you get it on a rack or do a compression check on the car? If the buyer will not allow this, run away. Also, he should let you drive it, with him, for a good 20 minutes if you are serious.

[Flygirl]

Oh, it's just an initial meeting in the parking lot of a shopping mall, so I can see the car for the first time. If things get more serious, I'm sure both will be possible. And yes, if they're not, I'll move on.

[YerDugliness]

If you get serious enough for a second look, please do this:

Have the owner start it from dead cold...make him open the hood so you can get your hands on part of the engine to verify that it stone cold...then stand where you can see the outlets of the sidepipes when it starts up.

a puff of blue smoke at cold startup=bad valve seals at least, maybe bad valve guides.

If the seals are the only problem, that's not a labor intensive fix if you know how to do it without removing the heads. If the valve guides are the problem, though....well, as Roseanne Roseannadanna use to say, "...that's different. Nevermind!!". It will mean the engine has to be stripped down to the block for replacement guides...that can be quite expensive!!

It is one of the "checks" I ALWAYS make on any car I'm considering.

Even if the engine starts clean, I'm with the others who say to run, fast, if the owner balks at letting you get a mechanic to check it over, which ought to include draining a bit of oil from the pan and sending it off for a contaminant analysis to see what sort of shape the bearings are in. At the price these things bring, it's cheap insurance.

Cheers from Dugly

[Flygirl]

Ahh, thank you! Oil analysis is a great idea. Didn't have a chance to see it start cold, unfortunately.

[RICK LAKE]

Flygirl You have to understand that this is a cobra from ERA. IMO nobody builds a better car. They have no control over the drivetrain. All these parts are either rebuildable or replacement easy.
Car may smoke a little on startup. Don't know how long it has sat in storage.
This would kill a sale for me.
Don't know how new the fuel is in the tank. Motor may not run right. Fuel may have gas stablizer in the fuel and still not run right.
Winter storage, I pull the rocker shafts to let all the valve springs close and keep out moisture. I seafoam the motor also with new oil and filter.
Spark plugs will need a change.
I would ask the owner reason for selling?? I would ask him to take the car to a locate garage to but on lift and have mechanic look it over. Someone will have to pay. I don't know who's car this is but find another cobra guy who knows what to look for with ERA cars.
Road test will tell alot. If it's an FE motor, chances are it has a small leak.
Don't be in a rush to buy it. Do a couple of different day trips to look and drive the car. Look at tires for any abuse, they don't lie. Ineer rear fenders also. Spider cracks in the paint, possible damage. I think the rest you have got covered. Don't look at how beautiful the car looksLook at how sound it is. Have any questions add to the thread. Hope deal works out. Look forward to having more women drivers with cobras.
Last Idea, have ERA look the car over, NOBODY is better than them and you will get nothing but the truth. This is a large amount of money and you want to be sure, that's all. Rick L. Ps if the car doesn't have something like power steering, ERA can install it for easier driving. Something to think about.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

Checking out an ERA Cobra with a '65 427 FE side ... professionally done by a well known builder. ... Very low mileage, but not driven much in that time.

If an ERA is built by ERA, or a truly "professional builder" who had built at least one ERA before, it will still be just fine after low mileage unless it was wrecked. That part is pretty easy. Even if there are some things wrong, they can be corrected for not "too much money."

Assessing the SO is not so easy. A couple of small oil drips over the weekend are acceptable; puddles are not. Likewise, antifreeze in the oil is not acceptable. You will not be able to judge the motor with a couple of quick parking lot views and short drives (unless there's something really bad with it). If the engine seems to run well on those quickie drives (runs strong, revs clean, no overheating) then basically all you really want to do is eliminate the possibility of something big time bad going on inside the engine. That's where you will need to have it looked at and listened to by someone who has dealt with FEs before. If you name the town, someone on here will provide you with a name of someone who you can help you. In order to properly assess an FE in a Cobra, the car needs to be put up on a lift, eyeballed from underneath, and listened to with a trained ear (maybe with a stethoscope). The pipes on these cars can often mask engine noise, but you get used to that if you've dealt with them for a while. Puddles under the Jag rear (or even a "wet rear") are not something you want to see either. All of that will be obvious to someone who knows what to look for and has the car up on a lift and is given the time to look for it. All of this is really no different than a "pre-insurance physical." The doctor is mostly just looking to make sure you're not going to drop dead of cancer or AIDS in the next two years -- but even if you get a clean bill of health from him that doesn't mean you won't have a coronary next week.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Flygirl

—We'll let the engine idle ... oil pressure approximately 35 psi.

—Has a fuel pressure gauge, pressure should be about 6psi.

These are two perfect examples of how the wrong guy (or gal) could easily flag an absolutely beautiful, healthy FE as being bad. A lot our FEs have been built with tolerances and specs that will give hot idle oil pressure numbers of 20psi or below. This can be absolutely normal and mean nothing. It all depends.

Likewise, an in-line, under-the-hood, fuel pressure guage, that is liquid filled, will give absolutely wacky, crazy readings when the heat is hitting it. You get used to the wackiness though and learn to "read through it" on your particular engine with a known heat change scenario. If you didn't know that, your first instinct would be to say that there was something wrong with the fuel delivery system.

[YerDugliness]

Flygirl, I've been following both of your S/O related threads...by now you are probably getting the idea that FE's are rather prone to oil leaks. Most who LOVE the FE (and that is quite easy, they are real torque monsters) just find a way to live with it, and in the end probably manage to embrace it in some sort of perverted manner.

You have really impressed me (us?) with your research.....you've done your homework well. If you are serious about getting an FE powered Cobra replica (and I agree that ERA is the gold standard in replicas!!), you should resign yourself to gettng downright oily on a regular basis as you chase the innumerable leaks, or find a well seasoned FE mechanic...more than any other Ford engine (well, except maybe the flathead) the FE really needs the tender loving care of somebody who has dedicated a significant portion of their life to learning the ins-and-outs of FE building/repair.

I keep seeing members ask for a location so they can recommend someone competent. Perhaps you'd be doing yourself a favor to reveal that info...as many have stated, the FE has many things going for it, but you want to be sure you get a well built one in decent shape, or sooner or later you'll be spending a lot at the mechanic's shop.

Let's hope the baffles in the valve covers really are the problem!

Cheers, Dugly

[Flygirl]

You guys rock, and commendation from sharp tools is high praise indeed.

I'm in Sacramento, CA and also the Bay Area, on the peninsula.

I am serious. The engine is an icon for me but I am worried that it's a bit beyond the scope of my mechanical abilities. It's not easy for me to admit that, but it is possible and I have to be honest with myself.

On the other hand, I want something I can grow into. Certainly that opportunity here. I already know Windsor engines, and have always loved the FE series, especially the 427.

In the other thread I've detailed my concerns, too much blow by causing oil to be expelled from the breather. That's the biggie, whether to take the risk and freshen the engine, hoping that nothing worse awaits inside it.

I'd be crushed if we discover there's some terminal problem, and end up having to replace the 427 with something (I hope I don't offend anyone by using this term) "lesser." Then the whole point of this will have been lost, and I'd be very disappointed.

[davecobra]

Flygirl, I think that part of the excitement in getting a Cobra is the mystery involved in getting and owning one, there is no such thing as a sure thing.
I have never met a Cobra owner that can't tell you a story or two of things gone wrong, or how things went great, it is an up and down relationship with your car. If this car is equipped like you want and you like the way it looks and drives, I would buy it, you will spend money on it, that is the life of owning a Cobra, there will be things break and things you will want to change as time goes on, but in the end you will love every minute of it and the fellowship of other Cobra owners helping and sharing there repairs and problems as well as the upgrades they have done.
As far as the oil blow by, I think that is because of no PCV and no baffles in the valve covers, I know mine did not have them and I had to put them in to fix my oil problem, it would saturate the breather and then little drops would start to fall out on the valve cover, installed baffles and a pcv valve and no more problems.
David