How leaky are new FE blocks?

[DanEC]

I was going to comment that a drip now and then in the garage was just the beast marking it's territory - but this thread seems to have taken a turn towards the sublime. But there - I did anyway.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Rodneym - 3 years registered with CC & nearly 700 post later. You have a Kirkham S/O in your details yet still no pics in of your garage
Dude get some photos posted I'm dieing to see whats in that garage.

I've got an album on my page (are they not public?) but there's big changes in the motor dept. One of the suppliers is taking forever, though. When it's in I'll post.

But I was referring to the illusive magnesium wheels...

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by rodneym

I've got an album on my page (are they not public?)

There are no picture in your album. I don't think you have a Cobra at all.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by patrickt

There are no picture in your album. I don't think you have a Cobra at all.

Let's see.... over 2K miles on the KMP and not one issue....and the FE doesn't leak.
By golly, you're right. There's no way in hell I have a Cobra!

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Let's see.... over 2K miles on the KMP and not one issue....and the FE doesn't leak.

So you say... but until you post pics, we continue to remain skeptical.

[Bill Bess]

My 428 never leaks, except for the gasket on the Canton oil pan...tends to stay a little wet, and one of the sheet metal valve covers tends to fling oil after a couple of years, but no real oil leaks. It really depends on who and how the engine was put together...experts = no leaks, novice = maybe.

My answer is, wipe it down once in a while and park the car on black carpet.
Bill

[patrickt]

If you have a solid cam it's a little tougher to seal off the covers, since you have to remove them. Once I found open gear grease, that stopped all of the seeping/weeping around the valve covers. Just don't breathe it. Valve cover gasket alternatives to cork

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

If you have a solid cam it's a little tougher to seal off the covers, since you have to remove them.

And yet, another advantage of having a hydraulic cam.

You gotta love Bill's answer. My 428 never leaks, but for the valve covers and oil pan.

I don't know why I get grief about not driving my car. Rodney only has 2,000 miles. He's not that far ahead of me.

[patrickt]

Another advantage of that grease is if the kids are really bugging you all you have to do is open the lid and wave it under their noses and they sit right down and go to sleep. Now that's good stuff.

[Dons427]

Originally Posted by blykins

If not built correctly, an FE (new or old block) can leak in several different spots. The whole engine is a unique design, with the intake making up part of the valve cover flange. If the intake is not perfectly aligned, then you will get a valve cover leak.

If certain intake gaskets are used, then it's possible to get a coolant leak into the heads.

The rear main seal is also a trouble spot as there are two seal halves, along with side seals, since the block is a skirted design. Different windage trays and oil pans can also play havoc here as they block the return in the rear main cap.

All of these things need to be watched carefully upon assembly. Otherwise it's smooth sailing.

FE's are tricky to seal properly.
My 428 was built and the BOZO used red silicone on the intake gaskets.
The gasket slid and coolant was in the motor oil.
Rear mains seals are difficult to get to stop leaking on these engines too.

Don

[Dons427]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I have spent the last five years finding and fixing oil leaks on my FE. It has never really leaked much -- a few drips really. No matter where the origin of the leak was, it always trailed to the back of the block and dripped down from there on to the block plate and down -- I think all FE oil leaks try and look like a rear seal leak. I leaked from the intake manifold, the valve covers, the "spot" where the IM, head, and vavle cover all converges, and that little plate that goes over the hole on the back of the IM where the breather would go, if I had one. I leaked from other places too, I just can't remember them now. What makes it so difficult is that the leaks were "misting leaks," but they add up and eventually cause a drip. But after five years my car can now be run hard and put away and not drip a drop for weeks or even months (my last drip was about two months ago). It can be done... it just takes time.

I have owned 2 428 FE's in the past 5 years and I live in the northeast.
I always get a coolant leak in the area of the water pump.
It has to do with the cold temps.
Royal Pain in the A__
The leaks do not need to be fixed.
Usually just spring temps fis it.

[patrickt]

I just pulled my car out of her hermetically sealed bag that she has sat in for the past five months and, surprisingly, there were only a couple of innocuous drips on the papers that I had put under her. BUT, there was one really interesting leak, and I don't even know if I should call it a leak, and I should have taken a photo of it, but didn't. Anyway, the PCV hose that runs from the passenger size valve cover to the base of the carb was covered in very small droplets of oil, even on the "top of the arch" of the hose, so it couldn't have "run" up hill there. The oil had permeated through the hose itself and left all of the small drops on the outside of the hose. Obviously, that PCV hose was not "oil resistant." Just goes to show, oil will find its way out of FEs one way or another....

[Barry_R]

Had a pretty long conversation with a buddy from my days at F-M - - he's the lead engineer for Fel-Pro performance gaskets. He asked a lot of questions about the FE rear seal area. They are very aware of the FE and it's tendencies...

[undy]

Originally Posted by Barry_R

Had a pretty long conversation with a buddy from my days at F-M - - he's the lead engineer for Fel-Pro performance gaskets. He asked a lot of questions about the FE rear seal area. They are very aware of the FE and it's tendencies...

He wasn't the one who designed the fail-pro intake gasket was he?? ...the one that had no structural integrety and slipped more than a Japanese Tectonic Plate!

[Barry_R]

Probably was - back in around 1985.

The non-reinforced race gaskets were originally intended for a specific purpose - race gaskets. The intent was that they be compressable to handle non-perfect intake to head fit, and be easily trimmable to accomodate ported heads. Back when the started off they never dreamed that head companies would use the GASKETS as a design reference instead of the other way around.

The first of "-S3" laminated steel intake gaskets were launched around 2000 in response to the market needs for a couple SB applications, but expanding the project got stillborn due to external reasons - corporate takeover stuff. When I had the opportunity to reformat, redesign and write the new Fel-Pro performance catalog in the 2005ish timeframe I asked the engineering group what new stuff we could put in there. In addition to a bunch of MLS parts I pushed for a relaunch/deployment of the "-S3" intakes. Since then they have done really well.

Next time you use a Fel-Pro performance catalog with the manufacturers in alphabetical order, with parts listed in the same order in each section, with technical data, and with pictures of each gasket in the back - look my way and wave. I did not run Fel-Pro performance although they are/were a sister group, and I had only nominal impact on their product offerrings - but their catalog (even the new revised one) is definitely "my baby".

The final draft was handed over to my boss the same day I parted ways with Federal-Mogul IN THE EXACT SAME MEETING.

[Silversmith]

I used tips from ERA Chas & Rick to reset my oil pan & valve covers. They no longer leak But I'm still gettin oil loss via oil breather's! These (old) side oilers produce a lot of pressure it seems & in a 200 mile cruse/romp I've noticed a 1/8 to 1/4 quart loss thru the breather's. Next on the list is extending the breather caps close to the height of the turkey pan to see if that helps. The original breather on the rear of the intake has an offset & does not leak! It is almost as high as the turkey pan

[donnieR32]

Originally Posted by Dons427

I have owned 2 428 FE's in the past 5 years and I live in the northeast.
I always get a coolant leak in the area of the water pump.
It has to do with the cold temps.
Royal Pain in the A__
The leaks do not need to be fixed.
Usually just spring temps fis it.

This makes me feel better. I got my 428FE last week and went on a 40 mile cruise. It was a bit cooler hear (mid 50's) and when I got home there was some dripping from under the radiator. After about 1 hour it was pretty much done. Does this sound similar to what you experience up in CT? P.S. I'm originally from Willington, CT.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Silversmith

I used tips from ERA Chas & Rick to reset my oil pan & valve covers. They no longer leak But I'm still gettin oil loss via oil breather's!

Yes Silver they make some crank case pressure. But since you're so kind in your praise here's the rest of the secret to eliminate the breather splash problem.
This was hashed-out between Elmariachi and me after me hounding Barry to death.
The components to buy are: Summit's billet PCV valve, Moroso's BAFFLED (a slot in the bottom) deep PCV grommet, some 3/8 ID fuel hose and a couple of clamps. How ever you accomplish it, you want only one open breather on the motor-in my case it's the oil fill tube on the intake.
Here are the back of my intake, the grommet and PCV valve. The hole in the intake is too small so I slowly enlarged it with a die grinder to just over-size the grommet. The breather cap's hole should be made a snug fit to the slot in the grommet side (where it would pop into a valve cover).

Looking at the bottom of the grommet, you can just see the slot in the grommet-that's all you need or you'll drown the PCV.

Use a little white grease or anti-seize and the PCV will work into the grommet snugly-you don't want it too loose.

Install the grommet into the cover plate with studs used in the intake. Make a paper gasket for the plate to intake join. You want it removable as an assembly.

Find the big EGR port on your throttle plate and connect the hose from PCV to EGR.

Leaks will subside to nothing.

[Silversmith]

Interesting Chas M8, but I have no pvc set up. My carb has mechanical secondaries, as does my distributor's advance. I have no need of a pvc valve. This old sideoiler runs top notch w/out one. It just blows oil. I presently have valve covers on with breather holes. As well as a set of covers (not used) that do not. The blow by seems to be comming from the oil filler cap/tube on the intake & dropping onto the inside rail of the valve cover & then driping down to create a fine mist that collects on the underside of the car. As for the breather cap on the passenger side (same as oil filler tube) it is connected to a hose that takes the excess oil down to a puke (part of accumulator system) tank located in the front of the roadster. The driver side breather is a standard Ford motorsport vented cap & that is where the oil drips onto the inside rail of the valve cover & does the same as the passenger side. My plan was to hook up the driver side to the passenger side via another hose & tie into the puke tank, using the same non vented style cap that is on the passenger side. Then extend the height of the oil (vented) filler cap to almost the same height as the turkey pan & see if that worked. The back intake breather tube that you modified does not leak oil on my engine. You say that there is only need for one vent required for the block? If that is so, then I might just install a non breather oil cap & do the hook up of both valve covers & see if that works? Any thoughts? By the way I just used standard cork gaskets from NAPA for the oil pan & valve cover gaskets & used your pan rail flattening advice & Rick's gasket installing advice & gave the sealers @ least 24 hrs to dry. The combo worked wicked good Man; when I refresh this old girls hart. I'm installing a set of quads like the photo's you showed

[elmariachi]

I have decided (Barry may fart all over this theory because he's a wizard and I ain't) that there are two separate elements here: positive crankcase ventilation and neutral crankcase ventilation. To me positive ventilation would involve a positive suction from the intake system to evacuate all pressure within the crankcase. A neutral setup is more like the accumulator system you describe and is essentially what I have with the rear intake port hooked to the firewall mounted puke tank. Just my opinion I don't think these two yield the same result. Some engines are going to need more than just atmospheric venting to effectively evacuate the crankcase pressure.