Eagle 4.250 Cast Crank Broken

[Eljaro]

Well,the damper is a standard Ford FE Damper, no fluid there.
The block is beyond repair. The main front main bearing support is gone, and the counterweight has hammered the block wall into the sleeves on cylinder 1 and 5 so bad that I can not even get the pistons out.I guess I will leave them just there. The part which feeds the oil to the filter and back and into the oil gallery is partly gone too.
It is absolutely not possible to get the block repaired, it would need a reconstruction of many parts and that would just cost too much.

It is a meal of aluminum crumbles all over, wherever you touch something falls off.
I am considering an iron block this time after I have seen what the aluminum cast looks like inside.
And the culprit , the eagle crank (I didn't choose it, Keith offered it with the short block package) looks to me very fragile between the con rod journal and the counterweight. Only very little meat in place there.
I think that this 482Kc engine with the Webers and the aluminum flywheel must have had an incredible torque and that puts a lot of stress on the crank. Maybe cast steel is just not good enough.
I remember when I had the Holley on the engine the reaction was much more more gradual, not as brutal as with the webers.

[dallas_]

That is just a damned shame. I followed your posts on getting the webers tuned up and it sounds like you really had it dialed in before the carnage. Really sorry to hear it.

[RICK LAKE]

ACademic I have been involves with racing since the 70's. Back then we didn't have alot of money to spare on new parts all the time. Mr. Mulvey was a true blacksmith. He could weld, gas weld, stick weld, and bond almost anything to any thing. We cracked a 455 pont motor down the camshaft tunnel into the mains. He repaired the block and we had it remachined. We got 3 years out of it before another crack in the block started and coolant got into the motor. Aluminum blocks are alot easier to repair. We windowed a few in funny car and rail car, about 15. We patched them up all the time with rods holeing out the sides. If you have some of the best welders and machinist with all the broken parts, any thing is repairable.
Here one small note, The crank shaft broke here, would guess from a problem in the cast when made. I do know the hammer trick and have used it for better than 30 years. Cast cranks will run forever if you remember to limit the rpm range. 482 with 4.25 stroke is a good size. I have been running one for 6 years with a Barry R. kit Limit rpms to 6,000 rpms and not bang the limiter and the motor should last for years. Hot dogging and abuse will shorten any motors life. This is not a cheap hobby. I feel for our friend in Spain and his pain. Rick L.

[Barry_R]

I have a couple local welders who could glue that back together. End up costing half the price of a new one for a real "Frankenstein" part. Noting wrong with that original alloy block - it was just the victim here. Problem is the combination of the poster's location and the cost of repair make that a unattractive option financially. Damn shame.

Sure looks like an Eagle crank issue though. I have a similar one in the shop right now - should get some pictures. That one has zero damage to the rest of the engine - but was broken off at the back of the first rod journal. He pulled the engine when he heard a noise and noticed the front damper wobbling - tought it was a damper problem.

[D-CEL]

Eljaro,

I too am dam sick to see that, sorry for your loss. However maybe we can all learn a little from it. As destructive testing is my business, I would be happy to have my guys run a failure analysis on the crank piece(s) free of charge and post the results here on CC if you are willing to ship the fractured rod journal to me.
Or another option is:
I will be in Germany for a couple of weeks in June (Berlin then Munich) maybe I could make a stop in Barcelona, it should be pretty nice that time of year. Ill even buy you a beer!

Send me a PM if you’re interested.

Best regards
Jason

[mdross1]

Amazing how much damage can occur in such a short time.Once had a 396/375 BBC kick a rod off at 4000rpm the second I heard the noise hit the switch and clutch,damage was incredible.It took out the block,cam,and a lot of other parts.I say forget repairing the block and start over and use a steel crank they are inexpensive as well as good rods.Good Luck and too bad about your carnage.

[Eljaro]

I am waiting for Keith to evaluate the pictures an give me a solution, especially on which parts are still usable.
He has not answered yet and it is possible that he has talked to the people from Eagle , because this is definitely a manufacturing defect. The crank has no more than maybe 800 miles on it and the rev limiter is set at 6200, which I try not to reach, shifting always before 6000rpm. When the crank broke the engine was doing maybe 5000rpm.
I could try to have the block repaired, but all the welding and machining which has to be done to align the front main cap, resleeve the two front cylinders incl. the filling and machining of the cylinder walls, redoing all the front oil galleries and fill the cracks which I have discovered and drill all the new holes and , and , and, and still not sure if there are any more unseen cracks left makes me discard the repair, which is going to get quite expensive, in the ballpark of $3000. For something over a grand more I have a new block and peace of mind.
I do not know if a cast iron block would have survived a crank breakage better then the aluminum block.
One part I could try to salvage is the camshaft.Only on can has got a hit, as seen on this picture.It is on the descending side of the lobe. This a hydraulic roller cam

[undy]

This type of trama travels all through the engine. Parts that look good may in fact not be OK. If it were me I'd walk away from the whole shooting match. The following years of paranoia would cause me more grief than the relatively small amount of money savings could justify. That's just me though...

I hope Keith bellies up to this and takes care of you...

[mdross1]

Cast iron block would not have survived a 5k explosion any better than aluminum ask me how I know.Throw the cam in the pile of parts and start over.Nows the time to consider a stroker.Good luck whatever you decide to do.

[cobra]

I would forget repairing the block and start over with a new engine and cam.
After the response from Keith I would also seek other opinions. (for example George Anderson Gessford Machine Shop Inc)
Good luck.

[ACademic]

Some good inputs from both sides of the fence on this one (salvagable or not). I think it comes down to trying to balance finances versus peace of mind. Personally (putting myself in the OP's shoes) I'd rather wait longer (i.e. save) and go all-new and start over, while others will find a way to get that motor back together. Either way, we all have chosen an expensive hobby.

[Silversmith]

385 series engine! 6 to 700+ hp/tq for a lot less than a FE. Thats even with making the required changes to your drivetrain/roadster. Ok, I haven't done the #'s comparison. But a new FE is 15 to 20K+ US. To fit in a new 385 series motor. Say a 532 cid; you can build for around 10K US in parts! Interested? Check out "popularhotrodding.com". Click on Technical Articles, type in "Building a Big-Block Ford Using Shelf Parts-Ah Rats!". By Stephen Kim; from the 6-7-09 issue. You might find it interesting. This is offered as just another option to explore. If for no other reason; to help you adjust to the nightmare you have/are goning thru! Best of luck M8!

[Great Asp]

Eljaro,

Sorry to see the problem you are having.

I hope you get back on the road soon.

Eric

[Eljaro]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Eljaro,

I too am dam sick to see that, sorry for your loss. However maybe we can all learn a little from it. As destructive testing is my business, I would be happy to have my guys run a failure analysis on the crank piece(s) free of charge and post the results here on CC if you are willing to ship the fractured rod journal to me.


Best regards
Jason

Well, out went the rod journal today to Jason. Let's see what comes out of the analysis.
Would be interesting to see what Eagle says when they get confronted with scientific data about their product failure.
For now they seem not to consider any goodwill towards a free replacement or anything to soothe the breakage mess.

[undy]

I wouldn't want another Eagle crank, free or not.

[Caprimaniac]

Hope you'll be up & running soon again, Eljaro.

When it comes to the broken crank, there are LOTS of reports on broken CAST Eagle cranks for the Fords. All brake at the exact same spot. It is quite clearly some fault in the casting process or the material used.

I have no idea if Eagle has adressed this problem or will do some kind of compensation for your loss.

It's kind of frustrating to see all the other parts beeing junked in such an accident & knowing that the fabricator of the faulty part causing the disaster not even will consider pay out on what this will cost to reapair or replace. Hopefully you will figure aout a deal with your enginebuilder.

As far as I know there has been very few problems with Eagles forged cranks. Some have reported on bearing journal taper or dowel being a little off, as I have found. The forged 302 stroker crank I'm using have been flawless.

I know what it means to live in Europe and beeing somewhat isolated. You don't have the ability to "stop by" your engine builder or speedshop to pick up some new goodies or show them the faulty parts you've been handed.....

[Rick Parker]

How about a Sprint Cup motor? That would make you pucker without the fear of breakage.

[D-CEL]

Eljaro,

I your rod journal arrived on Friday. I am sending it to my metallography lab this morning. I should have some answers later this week.

Jason

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Eljaro,

I your rod journal arrived on Friday. I am sending it to my metallography lab this morning. I should have some answers later this week.

Jason

Six weeks past-what were the results and what is OP doing at this point?

[Eljaro]

Originally Posted by D-CEL

Eljaro,

I your rod journal arrived on Friday. I am sending it to my metallography lab this morning. I should have some answers later this week.

Jason

I am glad the journal arrived. I was wondering why it was taking that long. Let's see what comes out of the analysis.
And thanks for your effort, Jason.