ford fe starter index question

[wrench87]

i have a cvr starter i was trying to fit it today and noticed the way they indexed it wont work it puts the cables next to the block, never having a fe or indexed a starter before how should it be ?.

[FWB]

Originally Posted by wrench87

i have a cvr starter i was trying to fit it today and noticed the way they indexed it wont work it puts the cables next to the block, never having a fe or indexed a starter before how should it be ?.

my mini aftermarket starter is the same way, cables toward the block, it leaves about 3/16 of an inch between lug and the block, i use a cable lug boot, like on the back of an alternator to shield it. if you have to grind the stud a little it wont hurt......

Fred

[wrench87]

my starter has a aluminum plate with 18 holes so i can change the position of the starter.

[FWB]

your in luck then, mine doesn't have that capability.

original ford set ups don't have the solenoid on the starter, it was a separate unit on firewall so orient it as you wish because no position would be considered OEM

[wrench87]

i saw a pic on gessfords site so that is all set 2 other issues starter drive is not meshing properly, and only comes out mayby 80 percent of the ring gear?.
what is the reccomended procedure to fix this. i thnk you could remove the aluminum plate of the starter and mill it down but what do i do about the mesh problem using a quicktime 6056 bellhousing.

[RICK LAKE]

wrench87 Clocking the start is easy, loosen bolt just enough to rotate plate to correct position with cable clearing block
The other issue is starter drive and how far out it extends. This is an IMPORTANT measurement. If your motor has a block protector between the bell housing and motor block, you may need to remove this to get enough contact between the drive on the starter and the flywheel teeth. If you have only half contact you will break the starter, starter nose, or drive. This will also give a wear pattern on the flywheel and prewear out the teeth. It's a pain in the butt but pulling the trans and check the starter engagement is the only correct way to know everything is OK. there shoule be a. 035" airgap between base of the teeth in the flywheel and starter drive. This way you have no noise on startup. Some guys have milled down there starter to get enough depth. I removed the block saver and trimed out where the starter goes and reassemblied. This worked the best for me. Got 13 years out of a tilton starter. I did have to replace the drive because of the problem with not enough engagement of the teeth to teeth. Had about 50%. Rick L. Ps I did replace the flywheel to a lighter one for 40# to 22#

[wrench87]

rick, i am fortunate the engine is not in the car yet i just installed the flywheel and bellhousing i wanted to make sure the starter would work before i installed the clutch. you have to run the block plate and it has a fixed hole so i dont understand how i can fix the mesh problem. steve

so are you saying the mesh problem could be because the gear is either to far or to close and by clearancing the hole on the block plate you were able to move the starter closer?, so now the only thing holding the starter is the 2 threaded holes on the bellhousing?.

[wrench87]

here are 3 pictures of my starter the 3rd one i have the drive fully extended with a pair of plyers what do you think?.

[patrickt]

There must be some sort of miscommunication between you and Rick. The block plate does not affect how the starter engages the flywheel. The flywheel is still in the same place with or without a block plate and your starter bolts up evenly with the block -- so a block plate that's in between the two is not going to make a difference in the distance.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

There must be some sort of miscommunication between you and Rick. The block plate does not affect how the starter engages the flywheel. The flywheel is still in the same place with or without a block plate and your starter bolts to the block -- so a block plate that's in between the two is not going to make a difference in the distance.

Well your engine is different than mine then. My 427 Powermaster starter bolts through the block plate and into the Lakewood bell housing. it is clocked so that the cables and their lugs point straight out horizontally away from the block.

[patrickt]

I'm sorry, I meant to write "bolts up evenly." Here's a shot of mine -- does your starter actually pass back behind the plane of the block?

[patrickt]

See? Even if my block plate was five times as thick as it is, my starter would still engage the flywheel exactly the same (other things would be off, but not the starter/flywheel engagement).

[wrench87]

what is happening is the starter drive is coming out the hits the ring gear and gets stuck, but the motor never turns. the engine is just on the engine hoist i did not want to put in until the starter works. if i remove the starter the gear comes out and spins. the teeth dont look like they mesh right?.
i have a 184 tooth flywheel and there is 11 teeth on the starter gear?.
i hope it is not something stupid like not enough juice to spin the tight new engine, but the starter drive gear does not return so i know it is a mesh problem.

[patrickt]

With the plugs out of the engine, a long socket wrench on the harmonic balancer bolt will turn the engine pretty easily. What you're saying is that when you crank it, the starter gear goes in between the flywheel gears, and then gets stuck, won't pull back in to the starter, and won't turn the flywheel either, right?

[wrench87]

correct, i could see if it engaged and returned then it could possibly be not enough juice, but it getting stuck and not returning worries me.

[patrickt]

Charge the battery, remove the spark plugs, and see if it does the same thing. If it does, there's definitely a problem My big-ass rebuilt OEM starter sells on line for less than $50, just fyi...

[wrench87]

i guess because the flywheel is not turning the gear is getting stuck?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by wrench87

i guess because the flywheel is not turning the gear is getting stuck?

I don't know. But it will be easy to see since it's on a stand and you'll have a fully charged battery and the engine will turn easily with the plugs out (confirm that with a socket wrench, but don't leave the socket wrench sitting on the balancer bolt). Even with an almost dead battery the starter gear usually pulls back in.

[wrench87]

ok i pulled the plugs and used a different jump box and installed a bat cable to the starter, the starter drive came out and turned the engine over but still does not release, if you try to restart nothing. you have to manually move the flywheel and eventually will return. here is a pic when it was engaged but not returned.

[wrench87]

also it is starting to leave a mark on the starter gear?.