511 FE Twin Paxton

[patrickt]

I remember this thread from last year. Drag slicks & Jag rear and the slicks won.... Stub axles for '76 Jaguar rear With normal tires I would think you would just spin, but surely you would want to know the rear wheel horsepower numbers after going to all this trouble?

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Opinions?

Dayum! That'll get er done.

Wear a light shoe on your right foot?

[rodneym]

Patrick,
To be honest, it's not that important to me. I know it will be adequate.
I think we could get a fairly accurate guesstimate () of loss (from a Kirkham or CSX) using numbers from a chassis dyno with the same tranny/rear. Good enough for me anyway.

[patrickt]

Alright. Can Tom at least video tape the engine dyno for us?

[ERA Chas]

If Tom makes 800 all hooked up at less than 8 pounds of boost (more like 5 most likely) that's still in the 650 wheel HP range. A live axle and slicks would be best for that if you want 9 sec 1/4's.
Just drive the car and roll power on and off. Don't drop the hammer or sidestep the clutch and you'll preserve parts. It's really a 'presentation' thing. Any of 'our' builders on here can find near 800HP n/a on 93 octane (in a 500+ CI build) with big roller cams, 400+cfm heads and a big enough Dominator.
But twin Paxtons is outrageous.....
--And Knockers, please respond more promptly when I'm insulting you....:<))

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

--And Knockers, please respond more promptly when I'm insulting you....:<))

OK, I be sure to take my beatings quicker.

Rodney, yep, Tom built my engine, but he wasn't the installer. So far, it's been a great engine, especially when I take the car cover off and actually pull it out of the garage.

Regarding the trans and rear end holding up, who really cares? I doubt Rodney will be testing the outer limits of that engine anyway. He's a waxer.

And did everyone forget that a Kirkham with 720 +/- HP beat the pants off a new Ferrari 458 at the track and they ran them more than once down the 1/4 mile strip in Vegas. That was a 10-second run and I didn't see parts left all over the track.

[maurice19]

Rodney,

I have never attended any events in LV, but I did attend the Cobra Bash in Sparks with Tom in 06,07, and 08.

I met 2 Kirkham owners at the 08 event that were parking in Toms` display space. Was that before your time?

Maurice

[rodneym]

maurice,
I must have you confused with another Kirkham owner. If I had read your Cobra make I would hav seen that your engine was by Keith and not Tom.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

.....Rodney.....He's a waxer.

Here, here!

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Alright. Can Tom at least video tape the engine dyno for us?

I have an email to Tom about that now.

[mhacars]

This is clearly a very impressive motor. When I was having my csx built from 2004 to 2006, I was going to build that very motor or buy an nos 427 sohc for my cobra. Due to the weight of the sohc, I decided to engage Shelby to build me an aluminum 468 FE that has a Vortech supercharger and an Aviaid dry sump system. It has all the good parts in it from the billet crank to the Phase 3 ported Shelby heads. The motor dynoed at Kroyer with 760 hp and 710 ft of torque at 6lbs of boost. Below is a picture of the motor in the car which was assembled by Bill Andrews of H.R.E. Motorcars in New York. He did a phenominal job. The point here is that it is too much motor for the car to the extent that it is not very streetable due to how quickly the motor winds up. This is something you may want to consider in your project.

To try and create something more usuable for my current project which is a Shelby 85th anniversary GT-40, I commissioned Jim Barillaro to build a 427 sohc with a dual quad set up and an Aviaid dry sump system. Barillaro is one of the pre-eminent builders of these motors and specializes in it.......he has been building these engines since 1969 and his knowledge is astounding. I highly recommend him. It took several years to find the parts to put it together from a quality original set of cast iron heads to having custom billet rods and crank made by Crower. The entire valve train from rockers to shafts to cams is all billet. What he built is very close to stock and generated over 650 hp and 500 ft lbs of torque throuhout the range. With the current 620 lift cams and the stock carbs it is maxed out in terms of power and torque. Sure, you can put in more radical cams and bigger carbs, but I think there will be significant driveability issues. He was a pleasure to deal with and his work is outstanding. Below are pictures of it uncrated and I am very excited to get it in the car and enjoying it. I always thought that too much is just enough but I am learning that sometimes moderation is more realistic. Just my opinion.......

[mhacars]

I forgot to mention that my cammer has a Shelby block and is 452 cubic inches. It was built for reliability and driveability.

[RICK LAKE]

Roydenm I had the silly idea of running a blower back in 98 with a single Novi 2000 on a 452 Shelby block and heads. Was looking for 8-10 pounds of boost with a clog drive setup. I did get the thing to work but had problem with belts popping off and chewing up teeth on the belt. These are some of things I had to do to get the blower to work OK and this was with fuel injection
You need 1 large fuel line of 1/2" min
A low pressure electric fuel pump with up to 15 psi rating Watch the gallons per minute too. One lean out and you could have alot of nice end coffee tables for the garage.
Cooling system, largest radiator you can get into the car
Hood, I had a paxton hood made for my car, looks great but is a gaint air scoop when driving and gives you the plane feel at 128 mph when the front end gets lite.
Buy some 4" blower fans and have them blow the air out of the engine compartment through the fender grills.
Fresh air for the blowers, Fresh air with filters to keep the trash out of the blowers and motor a must.
Extra heat into the motor, You should talk to some of the supercharger companies about running a water injection system like SNOW to help cool the intake charge, make more power, and have less detonation problems. Also an MSD 6alT box for controlling timing and set to retard it 2 degrees for every pound of boost to start. These are adjustable. Have you thought about an A/F meter in both pipes?
1 large bypass valve to control blower banging. I know these blowers have ball bearing to drive the impellor but if you go from 3/4 or WOT and shut the throttle off, the boost has no where to go and will either bang the carb plates or bang the impellors in the blowers. Yes it does and will happen even with a 6 psi setup.
Last thing, change you driving style. As others have said rolling on and off the throttle is needed. Boost comes on like a ton with these blowers. The car want to go everywhere but straight. I ran a gold centerforce clutch which held the power of my motor. I was 368hp without the blower and little over 600 under 6 psi of boost. I have gone to a twin disc setup from Mcleod and removed the blower. The motor is now a 482 and going to a 498. Turbos and blower make great added power but these car become killers. They are faster than you can even think. A clutch car is worse than and automatic. This is another reason for blowoff valves. With the right fluid in the blowers you can get from 6-9 psi out of these blowers. Carbs are orignial and look period correct but FI system is alot easier to adjust and work with. You have no intercooler, please check into a water injection system and is adjustable. These used these system during WWII and they worked well. Pain is filling the bottle with the gas tank every 100 miles. Rick L. Ps I had a big problem with rear tires not lasting long. BFG tires last about 100 miles on the first set and the car gets a hopping in the rearend or squealing. Last thing is SMOKE, not sure if it was the motor or tires. Grease the rear quarters of the car to get off the rubber. Looking forward to the finish build. Rick Listen to Bill Cosby in 200 mile an hour talk about the first ride. This is 100% true with a blown car. They also did this with an auto car, not a stick.

[twin turbo]

If those twin blowers don't end up working as well as you thought you can always go to the dark side and go twin turbo and EFI. My car has very good street manners with them and you just turn the dial on the boost controller if you want more power. Good luck on your project, looks pretty cool. Cheers.

[rodneym]

Here's a quick update on my 511FE Twin Paxton build:

Tom Lucas of FE Specialties contacted me recently and said that the engine was ready for dyno. He got belt slippage at 5200 RPM/711 HP. He wasn't getting the leverage he wanted on the tensioner so he had the ‘small’ aluminum bracket made of stainless steel instead. Different type belt, more tension, less slippage and more pressure; it made 768 HP on the next go round. I saw the video and I'll post it when I get a copy from Tom's camera. I’ll also post the dyno results on paper.
The engine itself could do more but not with the old fashioned Paxton SN60's, they're just not effiecient enough. Keith Craft predicted 700-750 HP and Craig Conley (maker of the SN60's) also said 750 HP, so we agreed to leave well enough alone. It would have been a different story with a modern supercharger and cog drive but that's not for this motor. The engine looks amazing and the aluminum brackets (small SS one too) are a work of CNC art.
My Kirkham is at Tom's shop awaiting install. There's still a couple open ended questions regarding the hood scoop, so everyone's input is welcome.
I can't wait to get her back!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Here's a quick update on my 511FE Twin Paxton build:

Tom Lucas of FE Specialties contacted me recently and said that the engine was ready for dyno. He got belt slippage at 5200 RPM/711 HP. He wasn't getting the leverage he wanted on the tensioner so he had the ‘small’ aluminum bracket made of stainless steel instead. Different type belt, more tension, less slippage and more pressure; it made 768 HP on the next go round. I saw the video and I'll post it when I get a copy from Tom's camera. I’ll also post the dyno results on paper.
The engine itself could do more but not with the old fashioned Paxton SN60's, they're just not effiecient enough. Keith Craft predicted 700-750 HP and Craig Conley (maker of the SN60's) also said 750 HP, so we agreed to leave well enough alone. It would have been a different story with a modern supercharger and cog drive but that's not for this motor. The engine looks amazing and the aluminum brackets (small SS one too) are a work of CNC art.
My Kirkham is at Tom's shop awaiting install. There's still a couple open ended questions regarding the hood scoop, so everyone's input is welcome.
I can't wait to get her back!

Attachment 20592

That's awesome Rodney!

BTW, if your typical "run of the mill" modern FE build with aftermarket blocks, heads and intake make 550-600 HP, then 768 HP is between 20-40% more HP. Seems reasonable to me. Can't wait until it gets dropped in and you're "puttering" around town.

[ERA Chas]

Cool Rodney. Tom builds a nice and smart motor.
Have the K's build you an ally Super Snake scooped hood and polish to match car.
Pay up your life insurance. Get 15" drag radials.
GET A SECOND ROLL BAR!!!!!!!!:

[rpatton3]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Well, I don't know a lick about the Kirkham rear.... But, if that was going through my (even) upgraded ERA outboard braked rear, either the half-shafts or stub axles, or both, would say sayonara.

I remember an ivory colored Kirkham with a blue interior on eBay a few years ago.

Seems like it was supercharged and the Paxton superchargers used ATF for lubrication.

That is too strange to make up. It made me think of Bill Cosby at 200 MPH.

Russell

[rodneym]

Chas - I inquired. I'll probably go that route but may need a temp fix also (cutouts, little scoops ).
As for the double rollbar, only one person likes that idea...

rpatton3 - Yup. There was an ivory Kirkham on eBay with racing livery and screen, dual Paxton, etc. And they do run AT type F.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by rodneym

As for the double rollbar, only one person likes that idea...

Thank Gawd....