Sorting out a CSX 6000 Series

[elmariachi]

A friend has a new CSX 6000 car that is in desperate need of being sorted out and has asked me to assist. Car has an all cast iron 427. Some questions:

1. The car has a SPAL puller fan, the twin pusher fans and the lovely Fluidyne radiator. In this Houston heat, it can't keep itself cool idling in the drive or in stop and go traffic. Over the course of 10 minutes the temp slowly escalates past t-stat opening and just keeps on climbing until you get moving. Seems to me the radiator is not dropping the temps sufficiently. Based on my excellent success with Taurus fan on my car for 3 years that's my solution, but space is limited and installing the new harness, higher amp alternator and modding the shroud is a PITA. Have any of you engineered a simple way to shroud and retain the SPAL fan, or found a suitable commercially available shroud? I also disconnected the pushers for now and that seemed to help slow the escalation, probably because they were disrupting air flow.

2. This car has an MSD 8595 billet distributor but does not have a harmonic balancer or a timing marker. Don't ask because I don't know. Instead it has a pulley that has the three oval slots just like my old R-code 427 FE balancer, but it has no weight ring and no timing marks, just a beefy pulley. My first thought about the escalating temps was "Maybe its running retarded," but no way to check without a friggin' balancer. Has anyone ever seen this? Seems insane to me. Owner will order a balancer tomorrow and we'll install it.

3. The horizontal access panel that sits flat behind the dash supports was not fastened in any way. Does anyone have a 4k or 6k series car that can supply pics of a clean way to latch that panel? I can drive some screws in through the carpet into the upper tunnel edges but I hate to cut corners on another guy's car if there is a proper way it should have been done by Shelby.

That's all for now, thanks in advance for any feedback.

[1985 CCX]

Call Nick at Actoncustom.com as he has done a 6000 recently and there are a host of issues to sort.......... Good luck!

[mickmate]

Hey Jim I'll be in touch. You need a TDC indicator of some kind to start with.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

I also disconnected the pushers for now and that seemed to help slow the escalation, probably because they were disrupting air flow.

This is the only part of your post I can comment on. I have the big 16" SPAL puller with straight blades and the dual pushers. I have them wired separately and have experimented with them quite a bit. They absolutely work in concert to increase the cooling effect. I do not use the pushers all that much, but when I put them on while the puller is also running, at idle on really hot days, they're good for dropping the temp an additional five degrees or so.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I do not use the pushers all that much, but when I put them on while the puller is also running, at idle on really hot days, they're good for dropping the temp an additional five degrees or so.

Not happening here.

[patrickt]

... and all three fans are blowing in the right direction, right? I know that sounds dumb but it happens every now and then.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

... and all three fans are blowing in the right direction, right? I know that sounds dumb but it happens every now and then.

Si senor.

Nick, shoot me an email with your thoughts.

[mickmate]

Hi Jim I'll dig out a few pics. I used black button head screws with washers and nylocs to screw the tunnel front down. Between the color and the carpet they disappear. On the underside of those seams I used a reflective adhesive tape to seal the seams. It's gotta be wicked heat down there. Does it have a good seal across the top of the firewall? Get someone under the dash with the other guy running a light. Does it pump some heat through by the door hinges? I know you're concerned more about underhood temps. What temperature t-stat is in it? Are you running a bleed hole in the t-stat? Does it have a bypass hose off the water pump? Does water wetter, Royal Purple or similar help you guys? You already know you need to find out where your timing is at. The pink wire up in the right front fender should be hooked to a thermal switch. I use a temp switch right in the bottom of the expansion tanks. That is how they switched fans originally and it seems to be the right place to read temp for that. I have found the Spal fans do a good job as installed. Do you get cool nights? What about a heater, it's like an additional radiator. I'll get some pics out for you.

[undy]

a thought in a different direction...

An "over-bored" block can and will have overheating issues. The cylinder walls don't have enough meat to carry away the heat. Any sonic testing done prior to assembly?

Pusher fans are worth squat. They're more for show than anything else. People who brag on them tend the be justifying their own financial expenditure.

Things to look for:

1) Good shrouds, radiator inlet and outlet (air recirc at idle is a problem)
2) no under-drive pullies. Under-drive your water pump and you'll have problems.
3) Good puller fan. El and myself use the taurus fan. IMHO, there are none better.
4) don't use too much antifreeze in the mix, water wetter seems to help a bit too.

to name a few...

[vector1]

make sure your water pump pulley setup is of the correct diameter or not underdriven.

[Mdman352]

Been here and got the postcards.....
I have a FE that displaces 454 and have NO cooling issues. The solution is not Water Wetter, holes in thermostats, Taurus fans, or anything other than simply moving enough air over the cooling coils to remove the heat.
After 3 different fans/shroud set ups I found that the Lincoln Mark VIII is the largest cfm fan made. It can be had at any Ford dealer. With minor trimming of the shroud it goes right in. I use a 160 degree thermostat and a 180 switch. In 95 degree weather in stopped traffic, it drops the temperature like a hammer. One problem…..It draws a lot of amps….like 45, so a 100 amp alternator is required.
Works for me.

[bret a ewing]

Run straight water -w- pump lube (water-wetter is OK). Good for 20deg over 50/50 AF/H2O.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by mickmate

Hi Jim I'll dig out a few pics. I used black button head screws with washers and nylocs to screw the tunnel front down. Between the color and the carpet they disappear. On the underside of those seams I used a reflective adhesive tape to seal the seams. It's gotta be wicked heat down there. Does it have a good seal across the top of the firewall?

Yep, this is how I think I will do it. Its generally sealing well everywhere except that panel. Doors are an issue so we'll experiment with the basket full of weather-stripping I have.

Originally Posted by mickmate

What temperature t-stat is in it? Are you running a bleed hole in the t-stat? Does it have a bypass hose off the water pump? Does water wetter, Royal Purple or similar help you guys? You already know you need to find out where your timing is at.

We didn't have enough time to tear into it, so I haven't checked the t-stat. No heater. We flushed the coolant (because someone had put a weak mixture of the orange stuff in it) and we disconnected the pushers. He drove it home and said it never wen above 95C, which is much better, whereas it overheated driving it up to my house earlier in the day. Funny about that pink wire, I assumed based on where it was that it was for an electric t-stat. Thanks for that tidbit Nick.

I had him order a balancer so we can get the timing in order properly. This coming weekend we'll check the t-stat and drill accordingly and decide what mixture to run. I have tried every mixture known including RP and WW and nothing cools any better down here in South Texas Hell than 50/50 distilled and good green coolant.

Undy, you and I have been down this path and you are right, I tend to first be concerned with the core engine build. This car has no engine pedigree other than it was represented as being a new 427 build. I have NO idea if it was bored or what's inside and we'll probably never know, but it is a marine block. From a cool 75C start following the coolant change (and it was 95F and humid as hell here yesterday) it took about 10 minutes of idling for it to get up to 100C , but it seemed like it wanted to keep climbing. I am hopeful that because it happens so slowly, maybe its just a heat dissipation issue and not an internal engine issue. I have lost my IR gun so I couldn't take radiator in/out temps but we will do that this coming weekend when we dig in deeper. I was hoping someone would chime in with a source for a shroud for a 6000 car, but I did some checking last night and it looks like Mishimoto and a few others make a fan shroud for a SPAL 16" so we will likely go that route first.

[patrickt]

Jim, please post a few shots of the "no balancer, but beefy pully" front of the motor -- I'd really like to see that.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Mdman352

Been here and got the postcards.....
I have a FE that displaces 454 and have NO cooling issues. The solution is not Water Wetter, holes in thermostats, Taurus fans, or anything other than simply moving enough air over the cooling coils to remove the heat.
After 3 different fans/shroud set ups I found that the Lincoln Mark VIII is the largest cfm fan made. It can be had at any Ford dealer. With minor trimming of the shroud it goes right in. I use a 160 degree thermostat and a 180 switch. In 95 degree weather in stopped traffic, it drops the temperature like a hammer. One problem…..It draws a lot of amps….like 45, so a 100 amp alternator is required.
Works for me.

Just so you know...

The Taurus and Lincoln fans share the same DNA and the same motor. The Lincoln has a 18' fan while the Taurus has a 17". They both are 2 speeds also. A lot of Cobras don't have the radiator surface area for the Lincoln, hence the Taurus. The CFM rating betweem the Lincon and the Taurus aren't much different, the larger of course belonging to the Lincoln fan.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Jim, please post a few shots of the "no balancer, but beefy pully" front of the motor -- I'd really like to see that.

Will do this weekend when we inspect the thermostat, install the new balancer, Edelbrock aluminum water pump and intake electric thermostat. Gotta get it done so we can start on Doug's CCX next weekend.

I should open a shop.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Jim, please post a few shots of the "no balancer, but beefy pully" front of the motor -- I'd really like to see that.

[ERA Chas]

The spacer's right against the pulley. Never saw that. Damper should be where spacer is.
Also think that Milodon's too deep for our type ground clearance.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

The spacer's right against the pulley. Never saw that. Damper should be where spacer is.
Also think that Milodon's too deep for our type ground clearance.

Well you can rest assured I am not performing any pan swap-outs. Guess we'll find out tomorrow AM WTF is up with the balancer and spacer. Fortunately I have a point of reference sitting in garage bay #1.

[WildBill1965]

That looks like a balancer I have off of an early 427 that has the pulley groove built into it! Mine has timing marks on it! I will see if I can dig it out and take pic and try to post.

B i l l