How a wiped roller lifter is a good thing..maybe

[Jerry Clayton]

The lack of bearing relief at the radius of the crank effectively reduces oil flow greatly

[FWB]

Originally Posted by Jerry Clayton

The lack of bearing relief at the radius of the crank effectively reduces oil flow greatly

ok, now that, upon reflection, makes a lot of sense. my thoughts on that up til now was it was acting like 8 little brakes dragging on my rods from side load. effectively might have been lessening the measured side clearance when running against the crank throw. i still have to measure bearing clearance to journal, the non-uniformity of the wear pattern leads me to think there was too much clearance causing an oblong bearing.

thoughts?.....
(JE custom forged)
piston to wall clearance seems fine at .004-.0045 and the other piston skirts look right for 6500 miles

[Jerry Clayton]

Oblong bearing---keep in mind that many bearings have been made that are oblong to an degree, counting on the rod stretch to lengthen the hole to create a more perfect circle.

Are you absolutely possitive that the oil galleies in your block are open to oil flow?? I have seen many hiper and police interceptor blocks where the gallies were drilled(most not) but were blocked off in the feed holes at the #4 cam area feed from the center galley out to the lifter galley

If that block was in an engine with adjustable rockers, it is probably blocked off------

besides using the pushrods to supply oil upstairs do you also feed the rocker shafts from the 2 and 4 cam bearing??

[FWB]

block had oil passages 100% open feeding the lifter galley, when the motor was initially put in the car we had oil puking out the breather cap in the valve covers. i pulled the intake, with the builders blessing, and installed a set screw with a .093 hole drilled in it to minimize the excessive oil up top.

cannot feed oil to shafts with this T&D setup, they are like a Jesel, they have a bolt down girdle that 4 mini shafts bolt to, one shaft for each cylinder. the bosses for the factory shaft stands gets milled off.
oil to the deck is blocked and its not blocked at the deck or in the head, so i think, and i will verify when i get there, the oil is blocked at the cam bearing from traveling up to the deck.

[Barry_R]

If you had measurable side clearance of .024 you had plenty of oil slinging - one area where Jerry and I will have to agree to disagree. The squirt holes have been dropped from everything OEM for well over a decade.

I do see some side loading on the bearing that could be a crank issue with wear on one side of the rods. Unlikely that every rod would be bent or every pin would be off angle - crank is tha only item left.

The V series bearings are just fine - lead indium is good for non-seizure and might have helped you. All bearings have a degree of eccentricity - your's shows circular "pops" in the face that might indicate cavitation - a failure of the oil film due to excess clearance.

Looks like a fair amount of fine debris got against those skirts - build debris or?

[FWB]

Originally Posted by Barry_R

If you had measurable side clearance of .024 you had plenty of oil slinging - one area where Jerry and I will have to agree to disagree. The squirt holes have been dropped from everything OEM for well over a decade.

I do see some side loading on the bearing that could be a crank issue with wear on one side of the rods. Unlikely that every rod would be bent or every pin would be off angle - crank is tha only item left.

meaning the crank is suspect? or tied in to below?

Originally Posted by Barry_R

The V series bearings are just fine - lead indium is good for non-seizure and might have helped you. All bearings have a degree of eccentricity - your's shows circular "pops" in the face that might indicate cavitation - a failure of the oil film due to excess clearance.

clearance bearing to journal?

on the same note.....how do you compare the clevite V to ACL H or the same as long as proper fillet clearance is there?

[Barry_R]

Crank machining is suspect - as in journal taper. Possible though that bearing are at fault - not as likely though.

Too much clearance - like if he measured a tapered bearing or crank at the tight end and it was bigger at the other end. Or if it opened up a bunch as a result of wear.

The H series is copper-lead with a higher ultimate load capacity. The V series is lead-inium with slightly lower load capacity but a greater degree of seizure resistance.

[blykins]

I saw a lot of Clevite bearings with a lot of taper in them at the beginning of the year. I measured a few and they had .0004-.0005" from one side to the other. I got tired of going through 2-3 boxes of bearings...and that gets pretty expensive.

I've been running a lot of ACL stuff and they seem to have a better handle on their consistency.

[FWB]

Gotcha.....so basically trust nothing at this point. check and verify.

as far as the choice in bearings, for street driven, it seems by your response the "V" series may have a slight advantage over the "H"

thanks Barry...

[FWB]

Originally Posted by blykins

I saw a lot of Clevite bearings with a lot of taper in them at the beginning of the year. I measured a few and they had .0004-.0005" from one side to the other. I got tired of going through 2-3 boxes of bearings...and that gets pretty expensive.

I've been running a lot of ACL stuff and they seem to have a better handle on their consistency.

2-3 boxes.....over a tenth? can't see where it is that critical. 10 degrees in air temp would change the measurement...

well, point made, now i'll be going over bearings with a pin mic....hehehe


build was done in 2006

[blykins]

No, read again....

They varied by almost half a thou from one side to the other.....bearing taper. You can expect a few tenths here and there just from machining, bearing tolerances, etc., but when you start getting a .0025" clearance on one side, push the mic across the feed hole and get .003", that's not normal.

[FWB]

yes i read it wrong......i brought up the ACL because of feed back from some local guys here who prefer them over the clevite also.
from what i can gather besides personal preference, the clevite has a broader application offering where ACL doesn't have the engine coverage, they are Aussie are they not?

[blykins]

Clevite and FM have a broader base but luckily all the aftermarket FE stuff uses BBC rod bearings......hahaha

[FWB]

some new pics as i disassemble...............

[DAVID GAGNARD]

The scratches seen on the crank journals/bearings are from trash,debris or whatever in the oil,wether it came from the damage lifter or not is debatable or this stuff could have been in that engine from day one.........

David

[FWB]

Originally Posted by DAVID GAGNARD

The scratches seen on the crank journals/bearings are from trash,debris or whatever in the oil,wether it came from the damage lifter or not is debatable or this stuff could have been in that engine from day one.........

David

yep right with ya....

the scratches are one thing, i can fix that witha good block cleaning and a honing, with new rings and bearings,... the bearing wear pattern is my biggest concern,...it will prompt a total inspection of everything....

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by FWB

yep right with ya....

the scratches are one thing, i can fix that witha good block cleaning and a honing, with new rings and bearings,... the bearing wear pattern is my biggest concern,...it will prompt a total inspection of everything....

As far the bearing wear, I would bring the crank to a reputable machine shop/engine builder and have them go over every journal on the crank and measure everything, twice,to see what the problem is/was......
just my opinion......

David

[patrickt]

When you changed your oil, did you ever notice an unusual amount of crap clinging to the little magnet in the oil drain plug?

[FWB]

Originally Posted by patrickt

When you changed your oil, did you ever notice an unusual amount of crap clinging to the little magnet in the oil drain plug?

no, nothing,

tonight i pulled the plate off the bottom of the oil pump, no scoring in there, wasn't picking up junk, so damage had to be early on.

was some lifter issues before car hit the street, valve covers were filling up with oil, ...BAD.....found wrong roller lifters installed in motor, oiling holes in lifter lined up with the oil galley holes in the block and full oil pressure was running up the pushrods, pan might have gotten sucked dry who knows...

in the end comp cams replaced the lifters admitting to a mis-boxing of lifters for the 427, erroneously had 460 lifters in the box. builder missed this on install supposedly got dynoed like that so was the damage already done? don't know.

now on another oiling note, oiling up the pushrods with T&D's you also need to restrict the oil galley in the block between lifter banks, currently its got a .093 orifice, in looking at the way the rockers are manufactured there is an oiling hole to feed the roller, i believe i am still getting too much oil up top, there is a weep hole drilled in the adjuster to feed oil back to the roller. it also is .093 diameter. i think this is way too large, full oil pressure is shooting out of there all the time, totally unnecessary.
what i see is the oil is actually pooling above the valve seal and when the piston is on its down stroke is acting like a syringe and sucking oil onto the backside of my valve through the guide...

any feed back from other people that are using the T&D's and have played with the restrictor size to fix this please chime in.

i have my own idea to go maybe .050 in the galley and also restrict the cross hole in each adjuster to stop the flood

[Barry_R]

I have not had that much oil with T&Ds. Are you only oiling through pushrods - you've blocked the oil feed in the deck? As long as that is true, you can purchse restricted pushrods that will cut down on the flow - I have only used them a couple times.