Which FE Cam & Lifter manufacturer is best?

[A98Coupe]

I will soon be deciding the spec. of my new Shelby 427 FE stroker build and need everyone's advice about the best manufacturers and combinations for cam, lifter & rocker assemblies.
I have not decided between solid roller or hydraulic roller yet but which manufacturers produce the best quality and most durable parts?

1) Camshaft
2) Lifters
3) Rocker assemblies

Of course I will be discussing this with my engine builder, but any advice you can give from your experience would be appreciated.

[blykins]

I use Comp Cams and Bullet for the majority of my FE stuff. There aren't a lot of off the shelf cams in the solid or hydraulic roller flavor, so I go with these companies....they have a lot of lobes to pick from when doing a custom.

As for lifters, Morel is one of the best hydraulic roller lifter manufacturers out there. For solid, I would at least go with a Crower HIPPO.

On the rocker arm side, hydraulic rollers can deal with a little less spring pressure, so the rocker bodies from Comp, Harland Sharp, or Precision Oil Pumps work very well with hardened shafts and billet stands.

If you want something ready to bolt on, you can't go wrong with a set of T&D street rockers.

[fordracing65]

Comp cams, Morel lifters, and comp springs, just like Brent said, Bullet cams are good, I just like the Comp brand better just cause of the name.

[blykins]

Comp valve springs are not made by Comp Cams.....and when you really need some good performing springs, I would look elsewhere.

Bullet makes some really nice lobe designs. Harold Brookshire designed a lot of them. My race motors usually get Bullet cams....

[fordracing65]

I don't know why I even put Comp Springs, lol, brain freeze, I meant to commit on T&D rockers which I like. I would use whatever you say to use.

[A98Coupe]

Thanks Brent,

This is what I love about this forum...........I've never heard of Bullet cams until now. However, they don't appear to be well advertised. Why should I choose a Bullet cam over say Comp or Isky? What is different in the manufacture or material spec. of Bullet cams which make them so good for race motors?

Also, I know T&D make good quality rocker assemblies, but what about Erson?

[blykins]

Erson isn't in business anymore...

Bullet is as high quality as any other manufacturer....same materials, quick turn around, but they have lots of lobes available for custom cams.

My advice here is to just discuss your needs with your engine builder and let him select the specs and manufacturer.

[Rick Parker]

What happened to Erson? When did THEY bail?

[PLDRIVE]

Solid Roller

Can't go wrong with the following:

Cam = lsm,Bullet
Lifters = jesel,Crower EnduraMax,Isky red zone EZ
Rockers =T&D,Jessel

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Rick Parker

What happened to Erson? When did THEY bail?

You know, I may have mis-spoke, but I think PBM bought them out. Regardless, the Erson rockers aren't made anymore....and they were a really nice set for an FE. The good thing is that the T&D street set is not much more and is really high quality.

A98, take a look through Comp's lobe catalog and then through Bullet's lobe catalog some time. Bullet literally has 8-9 lobes PER DEGREE of duration. So if you had your heart set on a 250° @ .050" intake lobe, you have a myriad to choose from, which makes it really nice when you're trying to make a combination work as far as lobe lift, aggression, DCR, etc. Comp has a nice catalog as well, but the choices just aren't there.

For instance, I needed a street solid roller for Lippy's engine. I needed something with a softer design, with a certain amount of lift, and in the lower 260's for duration. Comp had a 260, a 266, and a 272. That was about it. Bullet had about 10 for 260, 10 for 261, 10 for 262, 10 for 263........

[RICK LAKE]

A98COUPE You have givin no info on what the car is going to do? How much power you are looking for? What the trans ratios are? Rearend Ratios? Are you building another coupe?
Here's a quick question list to fill in
Size of motor?? with bore and stroke, why there could be an issues with the 4.375 crank shaft not clearing a camshaft. Max Rpm range?
compression?
Heads and amount of work done to them?
Rearend ratio?
Transmission and first gear ratio?
Are you running and FI system or a carb, Rough size of carb looking at?
Type of manifold Single plane, dual plane, 1 carb, 2 carbs, Webers, ( these carbs need a whole different camshaft profile than a carb or fi setup)?
Are you looking to race this car? car shows? Cruising?
What exhaust are we looking at? Some side pipes may cost the power range from 20-50HP and about the same in torque?
Side note, I think either Jessel will bolt onto either Bt heads or Edelbrock.
If you can find a set of Ersons, buy them for stock heads. There are a couple of other Companies, Harland/Sharps have been around along time. You want the supports with end supports.
Camshafts, I have run Cranes for over 35 years in all my motors but hemis, Racer Brown for them.
Same for lifters of running Crane. Crane doesn't make their own. Have 7 years with hydro lifters and now 8 years with a small hydro roller of .600" lift. Cam shaft was degreed for torque and not HP because of autocrossing.
Not trying to be an a$$ but it's not that simple. If you where going with a larger camshaft and solid rollers would tell you to get .904 lifters installed in the block for better support and higher than normal valve spring pressures.
The other thing, run 80# oil pressure with HVHP oil pump and a accusump for startups and racing.
Quick spec on my motor, Shelby 4.250X4.250 bore and stroker
Shebly heads with a stage 2 Mike Lefevers port job
Crane cam hydro roller .587"-.607"
BBC beehive springs. They have a limit of 5,600-5,800 before valve float. PAC sell a high pressure spring in the 420's open pressure over the 370's of crane I have 12 years with these and have lost 8-10 pounds of seat pressure. You have to know limits on these parts
The rest is basic motor with 100# pound spring for pressure. I have had no failures of this block in 15 years at the started size of 452 and now the 482 setup with 10.2 compression.
Numbers for this motor are 620 ft of torque and 540 HP at the flywheel. It's a hand full at times. Idle is quiet and just a little lope. I don't let my motors idle for any time, per lube them before starting, and allow the motor to warm up before driving it for the first 2-3 minute at 1,200 rpm.
Good luck with your build. Rick L.

[adricar1]

i have had comp cams grind a solid roller to my specifications, and they do have a special lobe catologue to choice from .

[blykins]

They sure do. But it doesn't have anywhere near the choices of the Bullet lobe catalog.

Browse through this for awhile....it will keep you busy.

Bullet Cams Master List

[A98Coupe]

Brent,
Thanks very much for the advice. I had no idea Bullet had so many grinds to choose from. I will be discussing my build with my engine builder, but just wanted some additional opinions.

Rick L.,
Wow, so many questions, but good to see you active on CC again! Anyway here goes with some answers about my application:
- This motor is replacing my iron 427 SO in my Kirkham 427
- Rear end ratio is 3.07 with 4 speed close ratio toploader gearbox
- Looking for around 600hp for mainly road use but some track day & hillclimb competition use. RPM probably no more than 6K
- I like the idea of big bore shorter stroke for fast, free revving feel, so am leaning towards 468, but I know 482 will give me huge amount of mid-range torque where I need it.
- Compression target 11:1 on 99RON pump unleaded.
- Heads would be Edelbrock Stage X, fully CNC port & chamber work by Barry R. I like the BT heads, but the raised exh. ports won't work with my Kirkham headers.
- Carbs would be Holley 2x4, 600 or 750 CFM race prepared by Barry R
- Inlet manifold is a BT dual plane to make the package more driveable at the expense of high end hp
- Exhaust system is Kirkham's own side pipes which flow much better than original 427 systems
- Not sure about roller cam type yet - many conflicting stories about solid rollers

I will be speaking to my engine builder very soon to start pinning down some component specs.

Thanks again for advice
Stuart

[RICK LAKE]

A98COUPE You have givin no info on what the car is going to do? How much power you are looking for? What the trans ratios are? Rearend Ratios? Are you building another coupe?
Here's a quick question list to fill in
Size of motor?? with bore and stroke, why there could be an issues with the 4.375 crank shaft not clearing a camshaft. Max Rpm range?
compression?
Heads and amount of work done to them?
Rearend ratio?
Transmission and first gear ratio?
Are you running and FI system or a carb, Rough size of carb looking at?
Type of manifold Single plane, dual plane, 1 carb, 2 carbs, Webers, ( these carbs need a whole different camshaft profile than a carb or fi setup)?
Are you looking to race this car? car shows? Cruising?
What exhaust are we looking at? Some side pipes may cost the power range from 20-50HP and about the same in torque?
Side note, I think either Jessel will bolt onto either Bt heads or Edelbrock.
If you can find a set of Ersons, buy them for stock heads. There are a couple of other Companies, Harland/Sharps have been around along time. You want the supports with end supports.
Camshafts, I have run Cranes for over 35 years in all my motors but hemis, Racer Brown for them.
Same for lifters of running Crane. Crane doesn't make their own. Have 7 years with hydro lifters and now 8 years with a small hydro roller of .600" lift. Cam shaft was degreed for torque and not HP because of autocrossing.
Not trying to be an a$$ but it's not that simple. If you where going with a larger camshaft and solid rollers would tell you to get .904 lifters installed in the block for better support and higher than normal valve spring pressures.
The other thing, run 80# oil pressure with HVHP oil pump and a accusump for startups and racing.
Quick spec on my motor, Shelby 4.250X4.250 bore and stroker
Shebly heads with a stage 2 Mike Lefevers port job
Crane cam hydro roller .587"-.607"
BBC beehive springs. They have a limit of 5,600-5,800 before valve float. PAC sell a high pressure spring in the 420's open pressure over the 370's of crane I have 12 years with these and have lost 8-10 pounds of seat pressure. You have to know limits on these parts
The rest is basic motor with 100# pound spring for pressure. I have had no failures of this block in 15 years at the started size of 452 and now the 482 setup with 10.2 compression.
Numbers for this motor are 620 ft of torque and 540 HP at the flywheel. It's a hand full at times. Idle is quiet and just a little lope. I don't let my motors idle for any time, per lube them before starting, and allow the motor to warm up before driving it for the first 2-3 minute at 1,200 rpm.
Good luck with your build. Rick L.

[Barry_R]

I generally use Comp for cams. The lobe library is pretty good, and certainly covers the range of needs for the vast majority of builds.

Although I get arguments about it, few if any race teams outside of F1, NASCAR or Pro Stock will ever be able to quantify a two degree or .010 difference in cam performance. I know that you would need to test numerous cams on dyno and in car in order to determine any real advantages. Unless you have a budget to accomodate such testing, close and rational is what you need for a cam pick.

I also use Morel for hydraulic roller lifters, having had better luck with them than others. Even so, I normally see them lose valvetrain control somewhere around 6000-6200 RPM unless some tricks are employed. You can readily see the onset of control loss on the dyno as an abrupt drop in torque - you can usually hear it as well.

Rick is enamoured with high oil pressure - an opinion which I do not share. Even so, there are many ways to success and nobody has "all the answers".

On a hydraulic roller we will normally use the T&D street rockers. We recently signed on as a Harland Sharp distributor as well - and they also offer a full roller system that - while expensive - looks pretty nice as well. The Erson parts were indeed good value, but after being purchased by PBM they decided to exit the rocker arm business for financial reasons - they remain in business for cams and such.

On larger engines I generally prefer the larger carbs - when set up with the Ford progressive linkage they are very responsive and will give more power upstairs.

The smaller stroke will probably feel a bit more reactive to up & down throttle inputs on a road course, and the reduced torque might be easier to drive further into the throttle. But at 6000 RPM or under there are no physical reasons to avoid the 4.250 stroke - either will be plenty durable.

[tungbdsvip01]

Vote cho b?n nhé

[A98Coupe]

Thanks Barry,

Just sent you a PM about my engine build.

Thanks
Stuart

[Danr55]

I just changed my FE from a flat tappet to hyd. roller and I chose a Howards Cam with the Morel lifters. I've been running Comp Cams but the available profiles for FE motors seemed limited unless you went with a custom grind. I found exactly the grind I wanted with Howards. As for roller rockers and springs, I got the entire assembly from Precision Pumps in California. So far, they've worked well.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by Danr55

I just changed my FE from a flat tappet to hyd. roller and I chose a Howards Cam with the Morel lifters. I've been running Comp Cams but the available profiles for FE motors seemed limited unless you went with a custom grind. I found exactly the grind I wanted with Howards. As for roller rockers and springs, I got the entire assembly from Precision Pumps in California. So far, they've worked well.

Hi Dan, does your engine now feel stonger or weaker or the same after the switch???