427 Side Oiler, good price?

[millhouse77]

I've posted this in another forum, but figured I'd like some input from ya'll too...

I ran across someone that has a 1966 427 side oiler medium riser for sale for $6500 complete, carb to oil pan. It was apparantly owned by a ford engineer that had it in a 57 t-coupe that he drag raced. He claims it ran before it was pulled from the coupe (20-30 years ago).

How he himself got it...well, he says his friend that owned it fell on hard times, and he paid off his medical bills. In return was a ton of old car parts.

Again, he claims it's super clean under the valve covers. This is located in a different state, so I'd have to get a friend to go out and take some pics. A couple more notables. He claims it to have a sidewinder intake and c6 and or c5 markings on the intake and carb (he says all are original). As for the internals, he has no idea. The engine is somewhere in storage and will not be able to be taken apart for inspection.

My question is, is it worth the trouble? Obviously, I'd have to arrange for a friend or family member to look at it, and if it turned out to be in decent condtion, arrange for them to ship it to south carolina. What would the worst case scenario be if I purchased it without knowing it's exact condition

[blykins]

It would depend on two things...

1. If its really a side oiler (or even a 427 for that matter)
2. What the inside looks like. If its already been bored to death, it will do you no good. If its the right block and it's in machinable shape, I would make him an offer.

[millhouse77]

Originally Posted by blykins

It would depend on two things...

1. If its really a side oiler (or even a 427 for that matter)
2. What the inside looks like. If its already been bored to death, it will do you no good. If its the right block and it's in machinable shape, I would make him an offer.

Of course, I havn't seen it yet...but he says it's crossbolted and has the side-oiler boss.

As for what the inside looks like, chances are....I wouldn't know that until after a purchase. There of course lies part of my dilemma.

His price is firm too....although with several people apparantly trying to come up with funds to buy it from him (his claim), cash would probably talk.

Keep in mind too, this is a block that hasn't been run in atleast 20-30 years. The chassis in the 57 rusted out and he retired the combo.

[blykins]

Have you seen pictures?

Any way that you can buy on the terms that you can pull the head and check the bore size first?

If you buy a block that's already been bored to its limit, you're looking at 8 sleeves or a different block...

[millhouse77]

Originally Posted by blykins

Have you seen pictures?

Any way that you can buy on the terms that you can pull the head and check the bore size first?

If you buy a block that's already been bored to its limit, you're looking at 8 sleeves or a different block...

Chances are, no...he won't allow a head to be pulled. The engine is currently assembled, carb to oil pan in storage. I could ask, but I'd have to arrange for someone to do it for me.

As for pictures, this is an old timer who seems to have no desire to take pictures or put in any effort. He doesn't email, doesn't text, and it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't have a digital camera. Again, I'd have to arrange for someone to take pics for me. Before I do though, I need to make sure it's worth the effort.

[Danr55]

Let's see if I understand this correctly: A guy you know has a motor that has been sitting for 20 to30 years, he says it's a 427 side oiler that was raced hard in a roadster before it was dumped. He's asking $6500 for it as is, sight unseen? Is that about right? You have no way of knowing if the block and/or the heads are cracked, if one or more of the cylinder skirts is chipped or broken, a bearing spun, or any number of other failures that were typical of these engines when they were pushed too hard. Sounds like a gamble. Can you afford to lose the $6500 if you're wrong? Oh, I ran into a guy a few months ago who had a 427 that had a cracked block that was "stitched" back together. I had to investigate the process before turning that one down.

[millhouse77]

Originally Posted by Danr55

Let's see if I understand this correctly: A guy you know has a motor that has been sitting for 20 to30 years, he says it's a 427 side oiler that was raced hard in a roadster before it was dumped. He's asking $6500 for it as is, sight unseen? Is that about right? You have no way of knowing if the block and/or the heads are cracked, if one or more of the cylinder skirts is chipped or broken, a bearing spun, or any number of other failures that were typical of these engines when they were pushed too hard. Sounds like a gamble. Can you afford to lose the $6500 if you're wrong? Oh, I ran into a guy a few months ago who had a 427 that had a cracked block that was "stitched" back together. I had to investigate the process before turning that one down.

Ha, sounds close to right. I can have somone look at it for me, inspect the outside, take some pictures, verify numbers etc. That's about it though. He might (MIGHT) be able to get the oil pan off to look at the bottom of the cyl's, but that's assuming the guy will let him....and that there is room to do it. The most assurance I was given was that it was running when pulled (I know, don't say it) and that it turns smoothly by hand.

If the block turned out to be garbage, how much salvageable $$$ would it be worth?

[King- cobra]

Millhouse,
Dan is correct in these motors when run hard get damaged all the time. The heads crack and blocks get broken. Keep in mind drag racers do not care about that stuff. The crank might be cut a whole lot and chances are it has pop up pistons in it which are no good on the street. The other thing that comes to mind if the car rotted down what does the inside of the motor look like. If the man is so sure it is good he should let you tear it down. imho.

[docf]

I have just completed a restoration of my original 427 FE side oiler after having issues with exhaust valves and low oil pressure. I got rid of the original heads, original cam etc and went with an Eldenbrook package, roller rockers etc. The package with assembly was approx. 10,000. It runs better than ever, sounds great and runs stronger than prior. The engine is quite rare. If the fellow would allow a mechanic to look at it and esp give you a refund if block issues are present it could be a go for 6500. Original heads were great in their day, but by todays standards are heavy with fair flow. When we first built this engine in 95 originality was my dream, but no longer. Est. 525 hp conservatively now, but haven't dynoed yet.

[Hydramada]

Southern Automotive

You know what you are getting with Bill and he is a heck of a nice guy.

[kevins2]

I recently purchased a 427 side oiler short block that had only been sitting about 6 months since it had last run and it already had rust in one cylinder that required boring (rather than honing) to get rid of it. I'd be wary of a motor sitting that long. I also had an agreement with the seller that an engine builder would inspect and magnaflux the block, crank and rods. The seller agreed to refund my money if the block was cracked and would adjust the price accordingly if the crank or rods were similarly unuseable. Without a similar agreement, you're taking all the risk and the seller is taking none.

[Tutosnake]

I know the rarity of these blocks is what's attracting you (or any of us for that matter) but good sense dictates that if the product is true through and through the seller would let you look at it in detail. Now, if I'm the seller I would only let you look at it only After you show me the cash in your hands... Crisp and green. Only then I would think it would be a fair dealing. After you are satisfied with what you saw, and paid him, I do not think the seller is responsible for any mishap to the engine thereafter. So go visit him with money in hand, show him you're serious, and take it from there. Depends on how badly you want a (potentially) original block from 1966...
Good luck, I hope you found a true jewel
Hector

[tcrist]

I'd say to go tell him to take a hike. But that is just me. Money is to tight right now to take a chance at throwing away $6500.

[rpatton3]

Originally Posted by millhouse77

I've posted this in another forum, but figured I'd like some input from ya'll too...

I ran across someone that has a 1966 427 side oiler medium riser for sale for $6500 complete, carb to oil pan. It was apparantly owned by a ford engineer that had it in a 57 t-coupe that he drag raced. He claims it ran before it was pulled from the coupe (20-30 years ago).

How he himself got it...well, he says his friend that owned it fell on hard times, and he paid off his medical bills. In return was a ton of old car parts.

Again, he claims it's super clean under the valve covers. This is located in a different state, so I'd have to get a friend to go out and take some pics. A couple more notables. He claims it to have a sidewinder intake and c6 and or c5 markings on the intake and carb (he says all are original). As for the internals, he has no idea. The engine is somewhere in storage and will not be able to be taken apart for inspection.

My question is, is it worth the trouble? Obviously, I'd have to arrange for a friend or family member to look at it, and if it turned out to be in decent condtion, arrange for them to ship it to south carolina. What would the worst case scenario be if I purchased it without knowing it's exact condition

OVERBORED so that you would need sleeves. Cracked block from freezing? (My sister did this to my dad's boat.)

Other block repairs to block needed. Might be a rare find, too.

[rpatton3]

Originally Posted by millhouse77

Of course, I havn't seen it yet...but he says it's crossbolted and has the side-oiler boss.

As for what the inside looks like, chances are....I wouldn't know that until after a purchase. There of course lies part of my dilemma.

His price is firm too....although with several people apparantly trying to come up with funds to buy it from him (his claim), cash would probably talk.

Keep in mind too, this is a block that hasn't been run in atleast 20-30 years. The chassis in the 57 rusted out and he retired the combo.

It might be a Chris-Craft that looks like side oiler but it is really not. And it might be a great find, but ....

[millhouse77]

Thanks for the advise folks. I think I'll have another conversation with the guy to see if he'll let someone tear into it. I'll also see if he'll give me the number to the gentleman he got it from to see if I can get some real backround on that engine.

[rpatton3]

Royce Peterson is an FE guru and historian. You can find him at www.mercurycougar.net as well as the FE website that I forgot about.

[gh12345]

I have one, if anybody is interested, shoot me an email at hillg51@yahoo.com

[gh12345]

I have one, if anybody is interested, shoot me an email at hillg51@yahoo.com Attachment 24401

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[razerwire]

Bought a block from guy in texas but the deal was I gave my engine builder the agreed amount with the right to sonic check block and mic crank and bore along with check heads before he gave delivery person money, well known shop with good relations with delivery drivers. Delivery driver went on other stops and came back in hour, all worked out.