advice on sleeved 427 So motor needed

[olaf herrick]

I need some help from one of you well versed motor heads. I'm concidering a 427 SO medium riser motor purchase from a local guy , he has had the motor for 20 years and its been raced a bunch , 3 years ago it was sleeved completly and currently is at 7 thousands over, the machine shop where the motor is has magnafluxed the block and there are no cracks , it has 12.5 to 1 compresion and a wild 700+ lift roller cam,the motor is stroked to a 454 with a 428 crank. The guy told me for my intended street and some road racing use the compression should be dropped to 10.5 to 1 and a 500+ cam installed. My questions is : will a sleeved motor last , with the racing that this motor has seen should I opt for a more original motor or does it all sound OK ? The heads are stock medium riser heads and he will give me a 2 four and single four intake. Thanks for any input.Olaf

[Ibr8k4vetts]

Try this http://www.gessford.com/images/FEPressurecheck.htm
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[wtcobra]

If the sleeves were installed properly, it will be as strong as a standard block. Some will argue that the sleeved block may be stronger in that the alloy in modern sleeves is stronger and better. In my experience, they may be correct in their assertions. Your block is seasoned, which is more desirable than a green block.

Wayne Turpin

[GEORGE ANDERSON]

My 427 has 8 sleeves and has been attempting to beat Wayne Turpin at the Run & Guns way back to 1995......675 lift and currently 12:1....if installed correctly....it's a good or better than new! I actually agree with Wayne......
Have a great Weekend!
George

[ecp]

If I may add, the biggest risk with sleeves is that a crack from the underlying damage may propagate out from under the sleeve or close to the edge of it enough for coolant to start leaking. I've heard of some failing and others lasting foreever. My opinion, from a perfectionist and aerospace background, is that welding up the underlying damage before inserting the sleeve would be most ideal. I've had an aluminum block cylinder area welded before inserting a new sleeve and was even able to get at the OD of the discrepant area through the water jacket hole to blend the back side of the weld smooth (certain amount of luck there so that it lined up with the hole). While cast iron blocks are much more difficult to weld, a select few people seem to be able to do a great job at it.

[GEORGE ANDERSON]

In 10 years of iron block sleeving and somewhere in the neighborhood of 5000 holes sleeved I can't say we have actually considered welding a thin wall iron block bore prior to sleeving.. ..considering the remaining wall can be as shallow as .035" some openings can show up and welding iron would mosy likely not be an option as it would do more damage than good....this is why using liquid nitrogen to install sleeves is so popular these days....little parent bore damage is done...cylinder bores with damage/cracks/fractures must certainly be checked...we use a general rule of 1" from the top or bottom as general guideline for a bore that can be sleeved and saved from damage.....a liquid sealant pulled into the block by vacuum and then baked in an oven is one way to save the blocks with potential leaks from a questionable sleeve...these images might show you some of the process...
http://www.gessford.com/images/FEPressurecheck.htm
We also repair aluminum blocks that are sleeved...this is a different process completely....these sleeves are generally a flanged sleeve with liner flange protrusion to help seal the gasket or o-rings.....welding a parent bore in an aluminum block that doesn't require liner press fit is different and more common....
Regards, george.

[olaf herrick]

George thanks for the advice,Iwonder if you would share some of your insight with me? My question is : if this block was sleevd say 3 years ago and has seen quite a bit of racing it has 12.5 to one pistons currently and is 7 thousands over , it was magnafluxed and checked out OK would you feel good about using it in a street machine thats strret raced a little ? Also do you have any input on wether I change the 12.5-1 pistons to say 10.5 -1 and take the 428 crank out ? I do want the engine to perform better than a 390 that I currently have. Thanks Olaf

[Coloradocobra]

Olaf,

I don't think there is any need to get rid of the 428 crank. The only thing I would do is lower the compression and install a good streetable cam with reasonable lift to keep valve train stresses down and improve reliability. If the block checks out, it should last a good long while.

I have a question of George and others. My 428 has sleeves in three holes due to severe rust. The engine sat out in a field uncovered for several years. With roughly 2700 miles on it, I am still getting some oil in those three cylinders (plugs foul up). Did I mess up my break-in or does it take longer for the rings to seat due to the harder sleeve material? All 5 other cylinders look clean. Oil consumption is going down so maybe I am over the hump. I can't remember which rings were used. Are there some rings that are better in sleeved blocks than others?

Gary

[GEORGE ANDERSON]

Hi Gary....give me a call next week and let Neil & me ask you more questions 800-829-3448
The sleeves typically shouldn't be any harder than the original block's iron bore.......let us ask more specific questions about the oil consumption and the condition of the plugs, intake gasket being used etc....
George

[Coloradocobra]

George,

I am really BUFFALOED by this problem. I will call you next week and maybe we can TACKLE it. After its fixed, some RECORDS might be broken. Right now, I'm ready to make a GOAL LINE STAND to get to the bottom of this. It was nice to C U at PPIR a few weeks ago, by the way.

To let others know - Cylinders 5, 7, and 8 were sleeved and all are bored .030 over. On break-in and some driveway running, some oil smoke was evident from the left bank from the beginning. After putting a few miles on it, however, it suddenly started to pour smoke and an intake leak was suspected. Sure enough, it was leaking. The manifold fit was close, but to be sure, we machined the manifold and buttoned it up with good Felpro gaskets. Although all of the left bank plugs looked bad, 5, 7, and 8 looked really bad but I was also running plugs that were too hot. It is my understanding that intake leaks are not unusual on FE's when you are mixing parts and with machining. My block was decked .010 and I am running Dove F5 heads with a Blue Thunder intake. As I said, the fit was close but since it leaked once, machining was prudent.

I cleaned the plugs every few hundred miles and then let them go. It still had some oil smoke but then I've seen more than a few FE's that blow a little smoke. At 2500 miles I was a little frustrated while trying to set my jetting with a new O2 sensor and finally pulled the plugs. 5, 7, and 8 were severly fouled. I replaced them and my mileage went from 10 to 15 and tuning made sense.

At first, oil consumption was in the quart per 300 mile range but now it is much better. Another potentially related problem is that I have been suffering from Holley float problems at our altitude in COLORADO. Something that can even affect the performance of athletes, much less cars. At lower altitudes like Topeka there is no problem but up here, it will on occasion severly flood. Contrary to what others have posted, severe flooding will wash cylinders and even ditlute oil. After a severe episode, my oil pressure dropped by 20 psi and the oil smelled strongly of gas. I had to change it immediately. I am working with Holley this winter to figure this one out. They of course claim that this has never happened before but another guy I know up here has the same exact symptoms.

Compression is even in all cylinders - 165 I think but its been a while. I just remember that they were all within 2 pounds of one another.

Go 'Huskers,

Gary

[GEORGE ANDERSON]

Gary...still waiting for that call...
George