Setting valve lash 428 cbj

[1795]

Okay,

Just got back to the computer. It has solid lifters and my decimal was off by one. It should have been .014. Was typing quickly before heading out. The mechanic said that he thought he heard a little noise initially, but then it went away. My hearing is not that good and we were also resetting the timing, as we had removed the distributor and intake manifold, so we were running the revs up to about 2000 rpm to check the total advance, which was set at 38 degrees.

So you guys think that .014 is a little too tight? They are aluminum heads on an iron block. I plan on bringing the car back in next week. My mechanic was not sure what to set them at, especially being that the original settings were all over the place and with no rhyme or reason. He called around and asked a few mechanics and that is where he came up with the initial setting of .014, figuring that it would grow when the engine warmed up.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1795

So you guys think that .014 is a little too tight? They are aluminum heads on an iron block.

I have Edel. aluminum heads on top of my iron block as well. I have the same "K" cam that was spec'd for the original 427-8v low riser engine when it first came out, and that was subsequently available upon request as a service item when the medium-riser was made available. Duration is 245/245 at .050 with a lift of .525 -- The LSA is 114 degrees and I have it installed 5 degrees advanced at 109. The original Ford spec's called for .024 lash HOT, and I set my lash at .018 COLD. My setup has the lash grow by almost .006 when it goes from cold to hot. This is an "old school" throw-back cam, and I love it. Blykins enjoys making fun of it though.

[FWB]

yes i think it's a little too tight. set them when the engine is hot. at .024

how much they will grow from cold to hot will vary.....you have enough unknowns at this point. too tight could bend a pushrod or bust a rocker or worse....

[patrickt]

I don't know how anybody adjusts valves hot. It takes me all day to do my valves -- and I usually split it up over a weekend.

[blykins]

With a remote starter, should only take 4-5 minutes at the most. Lash is given as a hot spec, how do you know what they are if you don't set them hot?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by blykins

With a remote starter, should only take 4-5 minutes at the most. Lash is given as a hot spec, how do you know what they are if you don't set them hot?

I check them hot after I've set them cold, and they're very consistent -- they all grow by just a little over .005 -- I just can't set them that fast so they wouldn't cool off. When I do it, I turn the crank over by hand, look at them, pick up the feeler gauge, drop the gauge, look around for my little T-Handle adjuster thingee, adjust one, tighten the lock nut, re-check, re-adjust, tighten, get it just right, sit down, rest, turn the crank over to the next one, rest, get a snack, play with Ellie, check Club Cobra, do another valve, re-check it, find that tightening the lock nut threw off the lash, re-do, rest, check email, post something to annoy Chas, go back to the valves. Since I forgot where I left off I re-do one, since it's not quite perfect.... And so on, and so on.... Seriously, it takes me all day.

[blykins]

Understood....

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by patrickt

...check email, post something to annoy Chas...

You've done that 15,485 times...

[FWB]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I check them hot after I've set them cold, and they're very consistent -- they all grow by just a little over .005 -- I just can't set them that fast so they wouldn't cool off. When I do it, I turn the crank over by hand, look at them, pick up the feeler gauge, drop the gauge, look around for my little T-Handle adjuster thingee, adjust one, tighten the lock nut, re-check, re-adjust, tighten, get it just right, sit down, rest, turn the crank over to the next one, rest, get a snack, play with Ellie, check Club Cobra, do another valve, re-check it, find that tightening the lock nut threw off the lash, re-do, rest, check email, post something to annoy Chas, go back to the valves. Since I forgot where I left off I re-do one, since it's not quite perfect.... And so on, and so on.... Seriously, it takes me all day.

heheheh, and is this the pace you go with when litigating....and charge by the hour....
or do you ramp it up for that?
it is quite honorable you include Chas in your busy schedule though.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by FWB

heheheh, and is this the pace you go with when litigating....and charge by the hour....
or do you ramp it up for that?
it is quite honorable you include Chas in your busy schedule though.

I always have time for Chas.

[1795]

It is so nice to provide Patrick another opportunity to berate Chas. Patrick, thanks for your input. One of problems encountered when you take the intake manifold off, is that you have to pull the rocker arms and lifters, along with the distributor. Knowing what the hot lash is does you no good when you are trying to establish the initial cold lash that you will be setting when you put everything back together. No matter how good you are, there is no way that when you put the lifters and rocker arms back on that they will be set exactly as they were previously, and the initial setting may have been wrong. In my case, the lash prior to taking everything apart was all over the place.

That was the problem we were having, what to set the lash at cold so that we would be close when we had the engine up and running again. From Patrick's input and what I found on my engine, between .014 and .018 cold is a good start, possibly leaning more towards the latter. Then after you have re-set the timing and have the engine up and running you can focus on hot lash.

My mechanic does not like having too much lash, as at higher rpm's the valve springs may not be able to keep up with the cam and you may lose some of the full cam effects. No bent rods or other ill effects with a hot lash of .020 and the engine definitely has more power than it did previously. I had lost the 2nd cylinder due to a torn intake gasket and oil getting sucked into the cylinder and fouling the plug. My mechanic guesses that the previous mechanic had not tacked down the gasket and when he was putting the intake manifold back on it had pushed the gasket down onto a lip at the windage tray and that is why the gasket was split. So far no oil leakage or consumption.

Thanks everyone for your feedback. Brent, I was hoping that you would chime in, as I have read many of your posts and value your thoughts.

[blykins]

FE intake manifold fitment can be a pain in the booty. You have the intake flanges to worry about, the ends, and then because the intake makes up part of the valve cover flange, you have to worry about that too. The fact that the intake gaskets are submerged in the oil doesn't help.

A good quality gasket is always necessary, something like a Cometic, Edelbrock, Mr. Gasket, etc., and it needs to be used after the intake flanges are deemed flat, straight, and at a parallel angle to the head.

I glue the gaskets down to the head, and then use a little sealant around the ports before I set the intake on. You have to also pay attention to how centered the distributor is in the hole, because if it's off, it could cause the distributor to be hard to turn, or could cause a leak on one side.

The guy working on your engine is correct, you don't want excessive lash. It's really not a valve spring issue, but it's just harder on all parts involved, especially when the cam is not designed for it. And as noted, more lash will effectively make the cam seem smaller, just because actual duration from where the valve is actually moving is cut down.

What's in your favor is that with every cam, you usually have a little window of lash that you can work with, and there are many times that I don't follow the cam grinder's spec. Your .014-.018" cold spec should be ok, IMO.

[1795]

Brent,

FE intake manifold fitment can be a pain in the booty. You have the intake flanges to worry about, the ends, and then because the intake makes up part of the valve cover flange, you have to worry about that too. The fact that the intake gaskets are submerged in the oil doesn't help.

A good quality gasket is always necessary, something like a Cometic, Edelbrock, Mr. Gasket, etc., and it needs to be used after the intake flanges are deemed flat, straight, and at a parallel angle to the head.

I glue the gaskets down to the head, and then use a little sealant around the ports before I set the intake on. You have to also pay attention to how centered the distributor is in the hole, because if it's off, it could cause the distributor to be hard to turn, or could cause a leak on one side.



I concur with the difficulty level of working with an intake manifold on an FE, it is a PITA . I may not have worded how my mechanic was explaining it to me regarding too much lash limiting the full effect of the cam. My mechanic was quite anal about measuring everything and checking all clearances between the manifold and the head. He ordered 4 different thickness gaskets to make sure that he had the right one. The Mr. Gasket one turned out to be the correct thickness. I think that he only charged me for about 1/4 of the labor that he had in to it. The previous mechanic had used way too much sealant in multiple areas, I think that he had 4 hours into cleaning the manifold and head alone.