FE timing

[SCOBRAC]

I just made it back to this thread after a year. Sorry I never got back to the guys looking for more info. on what I did. I seldom subscribe to the threads.

I am dialing in my 427 side oiler. It "feels" like 12 degrees initial timing is about right with cast iron C5AE Medium Rise heads. I haven't recalibrated the distributor but I believe the stops I used limit the total mechanical advance to 24 degrees for a total of 36. I'm still breaking in the motor and will be taking it easy for the first 500 miles. I will let you know if this changes.

[SCOBRAC]

It looks like the new 11:1 427 likes the silver (lightest) springs in the MSD Billet Distributor. It also seems to like the smallest (red) mechanical stop which stops the distributor with 24 degrees of mechanical advance which makes the curve look like this:

1000 rpm 0 degrees (12 degrees BTC static)
1500 rpm 12 degrees (24 BTC total)
1800 rpm 18 degrees (30 BTC total)
2300 rpm 24 degrees (36 BTC total)

The 428 I took out which was a mild 9.5:1 was happiest at 10 degrees static and about 34 degrees total advance on 91 octane 76 "premium". I should note I have resorted to a 10% blend of 114 octane to give the 427 an overall octane fuel of 93.5 which may explain why it likes the faster curve.

I'm still a little perplexed at the 44 degree advance mentioned earlier in this thread. Anyone else had success that far out? Generally speaking, the shorter or more efficient the path the fewer the degrees an engine wants. Aluminum heads and flat top pistons are the most efficient while low rise and CJ heads take more especially if domed pistons are used.

[Michael C Henry]

So how does a 427 FE sideoiler with Dove alluminum Canadaian Super CobraJet heads and a tunnel wedge intake w/11.5-1 work into this .Reccamendations?

[SCOBRAC]

Same as a 427 medium rise with Edelbrock heads. You will need less total timing. I'd pick Randy R's settings and work out from there. 11.5??? What kind of gas do you guys get in Sea Tac? I'm regretting going to 11:1...

[Michael C Henry]

I've only bought 92 preimuum and added additative.I have made inquirries about Racing gas but it hasn't been a problem for the last two years.

[CSX 4027]

Engine builder that build efficient well built 427's do not want to make the power with timing advance. My 427 made it's peak power with only 32 degrees. It was 581 HP and 12.1 : 1 compression.
My Winston Cup motor makes 781 HP with 12.5 : 1 and only 30 degrees of timing.
Less is better if it is built right.

[bret a ewing]

Timing-

Keith Craft/Shelby Alum. 482 Stroker, Edelbrock heads
10.5:1 compression
Idle 850
Total timing - 40 @ 3000 rpm
MSD dist. - silver springs

Regards, bret.

[Cracker]

My 427 runs 15 initial and 32 total all in by 3,000.

[PatBuckley]

MY engine makes max power with 28 degrees total timing! I knew it was well built!

[SCOBRAC]

I have 250 miles on my 427. I started getting a little detonation with the red bushing in the Pro Billet MSD so I cut the initial timing to 10 and it still was doing it when I wasn't running fuel additives. (Xylene @ 10%) So I put the silver bushing back in. It seems pretty happy now but still has a tendency to diesel when shutting down.

I may need to rein it in a bit more. I'm back at the light silver spring and blue spring combo with the silver bushing. That gets me 34 degrees by 2800 rpm.

I'm going to try running it at 32 and see if the diesling stops. I will reset the initial timing to 8 and leave the silver bushing in place.

Let's not get sucked into comparing alloy engines and or alloy heads with period (1966) 427 timing settings.

[CSX 4027]

Your initial timing to 10 will have no effect on detonation. Actually, you should have more like 18 initial. Idling at 10 will cause your exhaust pipes to heat up and potentially warp the side of your car and burn the paint. If you are detonating, you must check your total advance at over 4000. I have seen a few messed up distributors look good at 3000 and either turn around at 4000 and 4500 or take off. I know. I had one and it was set up by one of the infamous 427 genious's.

[SCOBRAC]

Hmmm...

Well regardless what your static timing whether it be 10 or 20, at 3500 it will be whatever it is plus whatever the distributor allows it to be. 10 plus 24 is still 34, as is 18 plus 16. In either case 36 degrees will generally get you detonation in an iron side oiler. Remember I'm at 11:1. This compounds the problem, as does the 306 (at .000) cam. Ad 91 octane "premium" fuel, 200 pound cylinder pressures and limited spark plug choices.

As far as warping the side of your car I suppose anything is possible. I will point out that the factory timing was 6 btc. I'm not sure how I would get the thing to idle with 18 degrees initial timing. That leaves 16 degees to play with. The largest bushing MDS offers, the black one allows the distributor 18 degrees of travel. 18 plus 18 is 36. If somebody (not me) tries this please let us know how it worked out. It might be fine in a 9:1 engine with 270 degrees of cam.

Too many variables exist to find a formula right for everyone. Combustion chamber shape, plug location, cylinder pressure, load, vacuum, fuel octane all play into this equation. That's why you never want to compare aluminum engines with iron engines.

I took it back to 8 btc and it was like herding turtles. It just didn't respond. I have gone as high as 12 initial with a bit more diesling on shut down and too much idle. I guess I'm back to using fuel additives.

It seems to be happiest at 10 with the silver bushing, that's 35 degrees total timiming. I opted again for a light blue and light silver spring which gets it all in by 3200 or so.

[mr0077]

Michael, I'm not sure I follow what you're explaining...When I started this thread, I had just got my car on the road, and this was my first FE. I ran as high as 20 initial, 38-40 total, and it ran and started just fine (I had 10.5, now have 10.7 compression, Edelbrock heads with a 280 degree cam)...I ran for awhile at 12 initial and 36 total, seemed to do fine, but right now I'm trying 16 initial and 40 total...running a wee bit lean but NO detonation or rattle, and seems to be much more responsive with better power at these current settings. Advancing the timing causes the idle speed to go up, so I idled it down to something reasonable (850 or so), to avoid run-on. Have you been resetting your idle speed as you advanced your timing? Your dieseling could be from the higher idle speed you would get with advancing the timing, or the combo of the bad gas and the idle speed. I'm running 93 octane down here in Houston.

[SCOBRAC]

40 degrees in an FE is a huge amount of timing. If it works for you I'd say go with it. You also have tons of cam, big compression and in theory should be pinging in big way. California is limted to 91 octane using the r+m method. I used a 10% Xylene additive in my initial (light springs, red bushing) settings. 11 gallons of 91 "super" and 10% Xylene (117 octane) nets you about 93.5 octane.


You have aluminum heads and modern chambers, better plug position, better thermal dissapation, better flow and perhaps even cooler plugs. That combination seems to allow you to run a lot of timing. Interesting.

Yea every time you touch your distributor you should need to correct the idle. I need to keep the idle below 850 or it runs on when it's hot. It doesn't like it. It would be happier at 950 or 1000 but it is too prone to diesel not to.

[Michael C Henry]

In 69 ,38° total was the standard tunnel wedges, tunnel ports, medium risers.and super Cobra Jets.My deal is most original distributors only had 10° degree advance plates = 20° .That way the manufacture didn't spend any more to preceisly control advance by changing springs and weights .18 ° inital is a lot for the starter to crank against 18+20=38.In 69 I had my distrib for my 406 reworked for more advance and less inital all headed for 38°.I do not know how much is built into "this "Mallory distrib. But as a benifit of the recent purchase of a Mallory HyFire VI.It has a programable auto start retard ( anything below 500rpm). Now try to figure a "Vari-Cam " into the mix.I still have that in a box up in the attic.

[Sizzler]

Originally posted by Michael C Henry


Now try to figure a "Vari-Cam " into the mix.I still have that in a box up in the attic.

I was running 22 initial until I needed to pass emissions, at which point I backed it down to 18. My ignition system backs off on timing during startup cranking, I believe 5 degrees, so starting (with a small offset drive starter) is not a problem. It had been as high as 24 degrees initial and I remember responsiveness was incredible, too good. I could never get a clean (quiet) start from a standstill no matter how lightly I pressed the accelerator.

If the above helps, I'm glad...more about my engine: 10.6:1 with aluminum heads.

Anyway, the reason I'm chiming in here is I'm wondering if that vari-cam is for sale. If so I'd be interested. Thanks.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Guys;

Take a look at this plug and give me your opinions....It is the # 1 plug from my 351-W,it is a champion plug,all the other plugs look about the same.... I have read a bunch of stuff about "reading plugs" but none say much about the "fire ring" or base of the plug next to the edge of the threads..... Electrode and tip stay grey to light brown and the porcelin stays a light color,but the base stays black and kinda sooty..... Car runs fine,running 93 octane pump gas,have run 4 gallons of 112 leaded race gas mixed with 12 gallons of 93 pump gas,plugs look about the same not much if any difference.........

Opinion please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[mr0077]

David, I thought someone would have jumped in here by now, but here's my take...the plug looks, and from your color description, sounds somewhere between slightly lean to just about right, depending on the number of miles on it - if not very many, about right, if 500+ miles, a bit lean. But the base of the outer shell looks as normal as it can get...I think the shell runs a little cooler and gets some sooty deposits that are burned off of the insulator and the electrodes by their operating heat.
Any other thoughts, guys?

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Ken;

Thanks for the reply,guess I should have also said I'm running a Holley 600 DP,64 front jets,74 rear jets......It came (bought it used) with 68/78 jets and was way too rich,worked my way down to 64/74.... Maybe I'll try 65/75s....

Just do not like the black sooty looking base,but I guess that is to be expected,the rest of the plug looks fairly good to me and the car runs fine and pulls good thru 6000rpms.......

Thanks again;

David