Any interest in some "budget" FE's?

[blykins]

Just testing the waters to see if there would be any interest in a *budget* FE for the Cobra crowd. If I could do a turn-key engine for right under $10k, would that be desirable? It would be somewhere around the 400-425 hp mark, around 396-400 cubes, with BBM/Survival aluminum heads, Performer RPM intake, new Quick Fuel carb, etc.

[1795]

Brent,

I am not in the market for one right now, but it would seem that there should be a market for you. That would help people who do not have deep pockets to get that FE look within a more limited budget. 400-425 hp is plenty for these cars. Good luck.

Jim

[66gtk]

I agree that that kind of power is a very nice sweet spot for these cars and they don't need more than that. Not sure if $10K qualifies as "budget friendly", but I haven't any experience in these matters, either. It seems people want either a 427/428 FE or a 351 based 427. Not much love for the 390 (so it seems), despite how nicely it can be built.

[blykins]

Well, it's as budget as I can make it. The parts are what they are and some of the cost savings is in a factory block/crank/rods.

However, I won't skrimp on machine work, measuring, or assembly, and even on a "factory piece" everything gets checked.

It would be a fun engine and I was probably a hair conservative on the horsepower. A rod upgrade and a solid cam and it would be a really fun piece...

[DanEC]

I think it's great of Brent to discuss offering such a product and from my limited experience the pricing seems competitive. However, it could take a while to flesh out much interest in this unique but slightly limited market. Pick up the world of the Mustang, Fairlane and Galaxie crowd and there may be more response.

For my 2 cents I think what would make these motors a bit more desirable would be the added expense of a SCAT crank and rod kit - even if it meant sticking with factory, reconditioned heads. I think some will get hung up about a sub-400 CI FE but will get over it for something in the 420 - 445 CI area. And later, as the budget may improve and the quest for a bit more power require, an Edelbrock head swap is fairly easy - at least as compared to getting more cubic inches out of the motor. However, starting out with iron heads does require some compromises with compression ratios. Just my thoughts.

[blykins]

I've thought about doing a cast iron deal, but if you try to make a set of factory cast iron heads perfect, you'll end up with more in them than a new set of BBM or Survival Motorsports heads. They pretty much all have sunken seats, need exhaust seats, need guides, need milled, need the valve guides cut for good seals, etc. Plus, the flow just isn't there. You're looking at low 200's for flow vs. almost 300 for the newer as-cast aluminum heads. That's a HUGE increase in horsepower potential.

You could certainly upgrade the rods and crank to stroker pieces and that's always a viable option, but the horsepower that a modern-headed and modern-cammed 390 would make would be pretty impressive.

I just know a lot of guys want the FE look and want good hp/torque but they don't want to spend $13-18k. Even a $2500 savings in the cost of the engine would free up the budget for car goodies.

I may do something like this for the small block guys too. One of my builder buddies just did a 306, pretty low-budget that made 330 hp and 360 lb-ft. That would make a 289 style car boogie pretty good...

[blykins]

*Factory 390 FE block, bored/honed with torque plates, align honed with ARP main bolts, square decked
*Durabond cam bearings
*Federal Mogul main and rod bearings
*Factory 390 crankshaft, fresh ground
*Factory 390 rods, resized, ARP rod bolts
*Custom Racetec forged pistons
*Mahle 1.5/1.5/3mm ring pack
*Custom Comp Cams hydraulic flat tappet camshaft
*New cam thrust plate/bolt
*Ford Racing timing set
*Ford Racing fuel pump eccentric
*Factory timing cover
*New timing pointer
*New balancer spacer
*Professional Products harmonic balancer
*New balancer bolt
*Crower lifters
*Rotating assembly balanced
*Melling oil pump/pickup/drive
*New factory style front sump oil pan
*Felpro timing cover/head/oil pan/valve cover gaskets/rear main seal
*Mr. Gasket intake gaskets
*Carter fuel pump
*BBM or Survival Motorsports cylinder heads
*ARP head bolts
*Trend pushrods
*SI stainless valves
*Comp Cams valve springs/retainers/seats/locks/seals
*Reburbished factory rocker arms/stands/spacers
*New filter adapter
*Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold
*Mallory Unilite distributor
*New distributor clamp
*Quick Fuel Slayer carburetor
*MSD plug wires
*Autolite plugs
*New water pump
*Ford Racing valve covers
*Factory pulleys/alternator bracket
*75A alternator
*Assembled/dyno'd

$9999

Some options...

Hydraulic roller camshaft upgrade - $465
Scat H-beam rod upgrade - $222

[kanuck]

How much more for roller rockers upgrade.

Dean

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by kanuck

How much more for roller rockers upgrade.

Dean

... and maybe a little more head work, maybe a SCAT stroker, maybe a nice aluminum flywheel, and dang, that's a slippery slope.... It's good to have a "budget build" available though. But the problem is that most of the car hobbyists out there are not that keen on dropping $10k on an FE -- the exception is the Cobra group. And most of the guys over on the 332-428 Ford FE Engine Forum forum, unfortunately, simply can't afford to drop that kind of cash. It's simply a different breed of cat over there.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by kanuck

How much more for roller rockers upgrade.

Dean

$500 extra for t&ds. Honestly though, the factory rockers do quite well....

[Bernica]

I think you have a winner going that fills a gap for the scratch builders on a budget (think SBF vs FE). 425hp is plenty in these cars and actually what they came with. And an FE it always the way to go, IMHO.

[kanuck]

Sorry one last thing, how much for a crank upgrade either 4.125 or 4.250.

Dean

[blykins]

$625 for a Scat 4.250" crank and Scat 4340 rod upgrade over the base price. Last 445 I did with the Survival Motorsports heads, RPM intake, and a hydraulic roller made 530 hp and 580 lb-ft.

I may just use the 390 and put it in this:



I spent Saturday riding around the mall with my 3 year old daughter....at least the people behind me wouldn't be laughing if I had a V8 in that dog instead of a battery.

[kanuck]

What is different now with today's flat tappet cams, a few years ago they could not even make it past the break in on the dyno without destroying the lobes.

Dean

[CobraBoy]

Originally Posted by Bernica

I think you have a winner going that fills a gap for the scratch builders on a budget (think SBF vs FE). 425hp is plenty in these cars and actually what they came with. And an FE it always the way to go, IMHO.

I very much agree. I hope to scratch build my very own 427 at some point (been dreaming too long... ) and I would very much like to stick a FE motor in there. 425-450 HP should be plenty to frighten me half to death!

Paul

[blykins]

Originally Posted by kanuck

What is different now with today's flat tappet cams, a few years ago they could not even make it past the break in on the dyno without destroying the lobes.

Dean

It's always a gamble, but I do a lot of stuff to prevent it. I use EDM lifters that basically pee oil on the cam lobe, break the cam in with the outer valve spring only, and then run some special oils.

A flat tappet cam is always going to be less expensive and there will be no power difference at this level in comparison to a roller.

[Maricopa]

425hp is plenty in these cars and actually what they came with.

It's actually @ 100hp more than the vast majority came with (355hp 428s).

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

I spent Saturday riding around the mall with my 3 year old daughter....at least the people behind me wouldn't be laughing if I had a V8 in that dog instead of a battery.

Where's a mall cop when you need one.

[Detroit Bill]

5500 RPM redline?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Detroit Bill

5500 RPM redline?

Not if you nudge him to put in a SFT. Even with my old school original grind I bounce off the 6500 RPM rev limiter when I'm not paying attention (about once a year or so).