Dial Indicators

[Large Arbor]

I narrowed in and got -2 at 3,6, and 9 o'clock. The problem I have is the starter is still out about 1.5 mm from properly engaging the flywheel. I bolted the blockplate to the flywheel and then bolted the starter to the block plate. I cannot understand why I am still so far to the passenger side of the car. I used .021 dowels to get where I am.

Phil

[Large Arbor]

And yes, at 12 the dial indicator came back to Zero.

Phil

[DanEC]

Phil - I'm kind of mystified by that too. Too be honest I don't think I've ever seen pictures of starter to flywheel tooth engagement like you posted in your other thread - I guess it's kind of a rare problem. But I agree - I would think the engagement would be tighter or closer together. I forget, have your tried a standard old Ford starter?

[Large Arbor]

Dan,

Yes, tried a standard OEM and due to design of the Shelby block, it interfered and would not allow it to even get to mount as the bendix was not adjustable. I am just at a loss of what to do next. I hate going to a machine shop without understanding why I need to compensate. Should I try to align with smaller dowels? I have the .007 and .014 but it just seems odd that it would be that good with .021 and the trans aligned but that far out on the starter align.

Phil

[RICK LAKE]

Phil, drop it the .004" and a hair to the right. and let it go. That's the best you can get. Lock it down and weld washers to the bellhousing. The alignment is done. Now we are back to the starter gear clearance. Check the gap, cut the block plate if you don't have better than 80% gear engagement. Check the gap and shot a picture. I am thinking you are good. Rick.

[DanEC]

I responded by accident under your old thread.

I don't understand why, but possibly slotting the bolt holes in the starter mounting bosses may be the only way out. I would be concerned about the starter eventually backing over however. I guess another approach might be to offset drill or carefully file out the bolt holes on the starter for the next size metric or SAE bolt and ream and tap the holes in the block plate to match. How many bolts secure it to the block plate - 2 or 3? If only two you might get away with only off-set drilling one hole only to swing the starter in slightly.

I think this would be pretty easy to do. Select the oversize bolts and take a washer for them and lay it over the mounting hole on the starter boss. Orient it in the direction the hole needs to move to tighten gear clearances and mark the inside circumference with small Sharpie. I assume it's aluminum so you should be able to easily file the hole out to the marked line with a good round hand file. Just go slow and test fit the bolt often to make the holes as snug as possible. The block plate mounting holes can easily be over-drilled and tapped for the new bolt size.

Have you talked with MSD? I wonder if they possibly have some different gear diameter options.

[Large Arbor]

So, I took a starter plate to a machine shop and they mis machined the starter plate. I will not likely be able to convince them they did so I will likely kiss that $500 goodbye. I am going to re-align bellhousing with dowels and loctite Once that is done i will drill out startr mount and grind down the block plate to make this work. I am so sick of this problem and not knowing the cause. Not sure what else to do...

Phil

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

So, I took a starter plate to a machine shop and they mis machined the starter plate. I will not likely be able to convince them they did so I will likely kiss that $500 goodbye. I am going to re-align bellhousing with dowels and loctite Once that is done i will drill out startr mount and grind down the block plate to make this work. I am so sick of this problem and not knowing the cause. Not sure what else to do...

Phil

Starter plate? Maybe the on-going Democratic Debate is addling my brain but I'm not sure what that is. $500 sure sounds like a lot of machining.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Starter plate? Maybe the on-going Democratic Debate is addling my brain but I'm not sure what that is. $500 sure sounds like a lot of machining.

AKA "block plate."

[Large Arbor]

I had the mounting plate of the Robb MC starter machined to shift the bendix closer. The machine shop moved to too far towards the flywheel so it would not even engage. My plan is now to re-align bellhousing and grind some of the block plate to allow the starter to move closer. I will then re-drill and tap starter bolt holes in bellhousing to lock down the location.

Phil

[DanEC]

So the teeth no longer engage at all based on their machining the starter plate to move it in the wrong direction. I get it.

Is this starter plate aluminum? Someone should be able to weld up holes in aluminum fairly cheaply. Make a template of the plate and hole pattern as exists and mark where the mounting holes need to be and drill them yourself. However, I don't know what this thing looks like and some factory-type starters have a thru-case bolt in some positions that are pretty long.

[Large Arbor]

Dan,

No they machined the starter mounting plate moving the bendix towards the flywheel, but they went too far. The bendix will now hit the flywheel and not come out. Thus they went to far, likely by .045. The machine shop email me and said they would fix it, but we shall see. I am not paying them another dime to do it.

I have two starters. A new Robb MC starter and a Dynaforce. The machine shop was playing with the starter frame for the Robb Mc starter. I am goign to screw with the Dynaforce. It takes a lot of time to align the bellhousing while the engine is in the car and I am the only one doing it, (i.e. put the bellhousing on, set the dial indicator to zero at 12 o'clock. Get out and turn crank to 9 o'clock, take reading, Get out and turn to 6 and so on. Ugh.)

Phil

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

Dan,

No they machined the starter mounting plate moving the bendix towards the flywheel, but they went too far. The bendix will now hit the flywheel and not come out. Thus they went to far, likely by .045. The machine shop email me and said they would fix it, but we shall see. I am not paying them another dime to do it.

Ahhh, I see. That's not a lot for them to add back to it... but it should be on their nickel. This seems like it's much harder than it should be.

[Large Arbor]

Exactly.. Should be easier....I could do it if I had the tools....

I hope they can get it right or my last cruises will be when the snow is falling...

Phil

[DanEC]

Geeez - from one extreme to the other. Well, good luck. Hope they do right by you before the snow flies.

[Large Arbor]

Ok, re-aligned bell housing and I have +5 at 6 o'clock and +6 and 3 o'clock. I have zero at 9 o'clock and 12 o'clock. Do I divide the above and is this good enough?

Also I see some have recommended welding washers to the bellhousing for the dowels. What does that accomplish?

I was thinking of squirting lock tight in the dowels to help hold them in place.

Advice here would be much appreciated.

Phil

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

Ok, re-aligned bell housing and I have +5 at 6 o'clock and +6 and 3 o'clock. I have zero at 9 o'clock and 12 o'clock. Do I divide the above and is this good enough?

Also I see some have recommended welding washers to the bellhousing for the dowels. What does that accomplish?

I was thinking of squirting lock tight in the dowels to help hold them in place.

Advice here would be much appreciated.

Phil

I take it these are readings of 1/1000 inch. The center of the bellhousing register is .0025 in high and .003 in right (pass side) in comparison to the crank centerline.

I forget what you are running for a transmission. If you are using a Toploader with a pilot bushing, I think those figures are good enough. I usually see not more than .005 out as a limit for use with a pilot bushing.

If you are using a Tremic, especially with a roller pilot bearing, you probably need to consult with their instructions or someone with some experience installing their transmission.

As I mentioned once before you may be able to very slightly shift the bellhousing towards center with the bolts lightly snug by rapping on the side of it with a rubber mallet.

You do not need to weld washers on a Quicktime Bellhousing.

The dowels should not move once the bellhousing is bolted down tight but a little locktight (probably blue - medium strength) would certainly not hurt.

Good luck

[scottj]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor;1367401k

Also I see some have recommended welding washers to the bellhousing for the dowels. What does that accomplish?

Phil

Read post #11

This method re-positions the bellhousing holes instead of the dowelpins. Much, much easier and deadnuts accurate.

[Large Arbor]

Ok, spent most of the day dealing with a loose dowel pin. It would pull out when the bellhousing came out. It stayed stuck in the bellhousing, so I had it welded in. I have every thing dialed in within .004. Funny thing, is it appears as though the starter is closer to the flywheel. I can get a large paperclip in between the starter gear and flywheel. I may toy with it some more tomorrow as I am beat. The one Robb Mc dowel pin simply would not tighten in. The weld was good so its a permant fixture to the bellhousing now. I will try to post some pics later of what the clearance looks like with the starter.

Phil

[Large Arbor]

Here is a pic of alignment now.