427FE Sideoiler No Start

[mutt]

Have read thru various posts on topic but can't seem to get motor to start...

After sitting for a while (2 months), engine cranks but will not start. With battery alone, motor does not want to fire. After going to start position on battery charger to give added amps (or using second car to jump), motor tries to start, but just won't complete sequence.

-Motor: 1966 Ford 427FE Sideoiler with Weber IDA carbs
Ignition:
--Distributor: MSD 8595 ready to run (RTR)
--Ignition box: MSD 6201A
--Pulled the MSD 6201A box and tried to start it with just the MSD RTR 8595, same results (for RTR 8595, voltage checks good on both orange and red wires)
-New mini high torque Starter
-New Coil
-New Rotor
-New Dist Cap
-New 725 CA/590CCA battery
-Fuel flow checks good
-Inline ignition spark checker shows good spark
-Timing: motor has always been hard to start but ends up starting; so, retarded (distributor turned CCW) a bit from previous advance setting to enable stating
-All grounds from chassis to block, battery and starter sanded to bare metal

Any ideas on what else to look at? Should I have advanced timing more vs reducing it? Was under the impression that reducing timing might make it easier for motor to crank.

Thanx
Mark

[1795]

When you say good fuel flow, do you mean to the carbs, or did you pull a spark plug and check for the smell of gas or if they are wet? It is possible to have fuel flowing to the carbs, but have some gunk in the carbs.

Did you put fuel stabilizer in the gas tank? Was the tank full? You might have some water that conduced in the gas tank.

I would also suggest putting a timing light on the engine the next time you try to turn it over to see what the current timing is, given that you moved the distributor. Make sure that it is acceptable.

Those are my thoughts. Good luck and let us know what works.

[philminotti]

Once upon a time, it ran and ran well, yes?
Fuel, Air, Spark. There are only three basic variables.
Although I'm an EFI guy, it could be carb related... An excellent test is to buy a can of starter fluid. If it fires right up, it's likely a carb issue. I too would put a timing light on #1 and check initial timing as well as verify that you're getting any spark at all.

[DanEC]

I'm also not sure of the comment that fuel flow checks good. Are you seeing fuel injected in the carb throat when you operate the throttle. Most carbureted cars that have been sitting for 2 months, will probably have a dry carb with all the fuel evaporated out of it. With the low volatility of today's gas - this is pretty common. It takes a lot of cranking to get fuel up to the carb and refill the bowls unless you happen to have an electric fuel pump that you can run first to prime it. Anything much over a week and I take a dispenser bottle and fill the front bowl through the bowl vent until gas starts to dribble out of the idle slots in the carb throat. Then with a pump of two of the throttle it should fire instantly.

But you list a lot of MSD equipment above and any of it could be at fault also.

[mutt]

We'll see, but with new battery, new starter, fuel pressure, new cap, new rotor, new coil, and proper grounding, MSD tech believe it is 8595 RTR dist. Reason for determination is:

- static battery - 12.85v
- static positive coil - 12.85v
- static neg coil - 12.85v
- crank battery - 11v
- crank neg coil - 7.42v

test:
- coil wire spark - there but weak
- in line plug spark checker - there but weak
- direct connect battery to positive coil - 12v static; 11 volt crank and nostart

Dist sent to MSD for rebuild.

More to follow...thanx for all the help.

[twobjshelbys]

What gives with MSD? They used to build good stuff. I went through 2 6ALs on my Cobra...

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by mutt

We'll see, but with new battery, new starter, fuel pressure, new cap, new rotor, new coil, and proper grounding, MSD tech believe it is 8595 RTR dist. Reason for determination is:

- static battery - 12.85v
- static positive coil - 12.85v
- static neg coil - 12.85v
- crank battery - 11v
- crank neg coil - 7.42v

test:
- coil wire spark - there but weak
- in line plug spark checker - there but weak
- direct connect battery to positive coil - 12v static; 11 volt crank and nostart

Dist sent to MSD for rebuild.

More to follow...thanx for all the help.

That NEG coil voltage while cranking was measured how?
That would be an RMS value of 12v to 0 volts back to 12v, duty cycle dependant, or in other words - dwell angle.
Did you measure the coil wire resistance?
What gap does the spark jump?

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

What gives with MSD? They used to build good stuff. I went through 2 6ALs on my Cobra...

I finally ripped all the MSD stuff out and went with a Pertronix dizzy. Spark was like night and day!

[mutt]

Bad module in 8595 RTR distributor. R&R with MSD and works fine now.

I have MSD 6201 6A. Any ignition performance value for running 6201 6A in conjunction with RTR. Or, just run RTR?

[streetrod1927]

Mutt: I had the same problem with MSD RTR as well on my '68 S/O.

[FOMOCONUT]

Mutt; What kind of battery is in this car? Optima. SPF 2773 Jerry