Setting Timing

[Large Arbor]

Ok, progress. The mechanical vacuum advance was broken inhibiting setting the timing. I will be putting in a new distributor tomorrow and trying again!

Phil

[1795]

Phil,

Are you trying to set the timing by yourself, or do you have someone to assist? While it is possible to do it by yourself, it is easier to have someone running the throttle while another person is using the timing light and adjusting the distributor. Good luck.

Jim

[Bernica]

A good timing light will give you RPM and everything you right on the instrument. You just need including initial timing and all in. Once you have those numbers, check the curve from initial to full and adjust accordingly.

[Large Arbor]

I have a friend helping. We removed the distributor cap and screw down cap which I have put on backwards. The mechanical advance was stuck and would not move. The plastic sections had broken thus not allowing any advance. Thus we could set timing at a point and then when the engine was revved upward there was no movement in timing. The inside of the distributor had significant corrosion.

Phil

[patrickt]

If you're putting in a new distributor, like the nice MSD billet one with no vacuum advance (like mine), then you really need to confirm you get it in right, with TDC matching up, and your pointer being set properly. From what it sounds like, you can not rely 100% that anything was done exactly right. Did you mean you managed to screw the rotor back down backwards? That's hard to do with one side having a square and the other side having a circle, but I guess if you really worked at it you could jam it in backwards.

[Large Arbor]

Yes, Patrick I managed to try to force the square into the round hole. I have it right now. I will confirm TDC on the new install.

Phil

[lippy]

I believe that with an MSD system you can't use a dial back timing light because of the multiple sparks. You want a simple one. I use the one I bought at Sears 25 years ago. Dead simple but works well.

[blykins]

You can use a dial-back.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by blykins

You can use a dial-back.

Thanks for clearing that up because that's all I have used for years, even on my old MSD setup.

[patrickt]

Come on, setting the timing on an MSD distributor is about as easy as it gets. You can use any timing light that works on it and, so long as you know what the bushing is that was put in it, you can just set the timing at idle and you'll know what the all in amount is going to be (yes, you should still check it though). Then just play with the springs until you find what you like. That's easier than changing a spark plug, and way easier that setting the valves, which takes some of us all day. You don't even get your hands dirty setting the timing and it's impossible to drop anything in the wrong place and ruin your day.

[Large Arbor]

Ok, I must confess to my screw ups. 1) I put the distributor button on backwards and tied to force the square old in the round slot, 2) When I pulled the distributor the oil pump drive came with it causing a (oh noooo!!) moment. I used a straw to put that back without dropping it into the oil pan. The mechanical advance was not working on the MSD 8594 Distributor thus making timing more difficult. I will have a new distributor tonight. I will drill two holes in the sides of the distributor cap to allow air to get to it hopefully reducing corrosion. Once the timing is set I have seal to replace where the driveshaft goes into the T3550 transmission. Once that is done, I also need to replace valve cover gaskets. That is my list!

Thanks to the most excellent dudes on this site, I may be able to avoid future mistakes. Thanks again folks for all the comments to this student.

Phil

[lippy]

Just what I read...

From MSD:
https://forums.msdperformance.com/ar...hp/t-7883.html
https://forums.msdperformance.com/ar...hp/t-9867.html

[Bernica]

Wow! I would have never known. The only lights I have are an old Craftsman dial-back, a Mac Tools digital (dial back) and a simple Flaming River battery operated light with no dial back.

[blykins]

I've never had any issues using a dial-back, although I usually don't use one. I do get the "bouncy" timing every once in awhile, but it depends on the springs that are in the distributor, how small the distributor cap is (you can get spark scatter with a small cap), and how the distributor gear interacts with the cam gear.

Just used one a few weeks ago. Was helping my engine builder buddy dyno a SBC that a random guy brought in. It had no timing marks on the balancer, so we verified TDC/zero, and used a dial-back. Timing was rock solid, no scatter. That was with an MSD distributor and box.

May depend on the brand of light, but I know a few guys who run dial-backs with their MSD stuff.

[Large Arbor]

I did get the MSD distributor and talked with them. They recommended drilling 2 holes 180 degrees apart. New distributor went in last night and initial timing is about 17 degrees and at 3,000 rpm it goes to 35 degrees and says there through 4,000 rpm. I am not sure of the ramp up. Engine builder says it's fine. Things just seem to idle a little faster than I like at about 1100 or 1200. I plan to try to reduce idle speed. Builder said I could use the black bushing in the distrbutor and it may be better. He echoed the same issues with MSD. I seems to have a little more lifter / rocker noise (at least it seems that way) than before but everything is torqued down ok. With the shafts and no adjustments, not sure there is much to do in that regard. I plan to go to the VR-1 racing oil to see if that helps.

Thanks again for all the advice. Now on to the Tremec rear transmission seal and finding the tools to remove and put that in.

Phil

[1795]

Phil,

Great to hear that you have one thing out of the way. The VR1 racing oil may help a little with that noise. Good luck with the rest of the project. Tuning down the idle a little sounds in order, that does seem a little fast for a car not sitting on a race track.

[Bernica]

Might want to check for any vacuum leaks first before playing with the idle.

[Large Arbor]

I have the mechanical advance and no vacuum. I think just adjusting idle speed should help things.

Phil

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by Large Arbor

I have the mechanical advance and no vacuum. I think just adjusting idle speed should help things.

Phil

Phil - I think he means a last check for any sign of vacuum leaks around the intake gasket and carb gasket since either one will elevate idle speed somewhat.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by DanEC

Phil - I think he means a last check for any sign of vacuum leaks around the intake gasket and carb gasket since either one will elevate idle speed somewhat.

Thanks Dan. That's exactly what I meant. Check all your vacuum plugs on carb and make sure one isn't missing. I know it's frowned upon, but I have used starter fluid to spray around carb and intake at idle to help find any potential leaks. There are other safer methods...