What's the appeal of an aluminum engine block?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by rodneym

I'd like to go on the record as stating that my next FE will be iron.

It will be a 332ci with 240HP. That way Pat can keep up

... and ol' Pat appreciates your kind, thoughtful, and considerate concern.

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by rodneym

I'd like to go on the record as stating that my next FE will be iron.

It will be a 332ci with 240HP. That way Pat can keep up

240 SAE Gross HP - what's the SAE Net HP on that?

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by rodneym

I'd like to go on the record as stating that my next FE will be iron.

It will be a 332ci with 240HP. That way Pat can keep up

Well, finally after 260 + posts (Brent now knows how to stir the pot) someone is talking my language. A stroked iron 428 with worked 1961 390/401 iron heads and rockers, cast iron water pump and timing chain cover, and Ford dual point distributor. I made one concession in that the 427 LR 2X4 intake is aluminum. Vintage Detroit iron Baby!! The only way to go. Keeps the nose of the beast firmly planted on the road.

[ERANJ]

Could not agree more your car is stunning.

[Dimis]

I go to sleep and wake up to - BOOM! 4 more pages of fun.

I'd still choose an all AL engine, not because I'm really going to notice the difference driving, I doubt I'd notice 100HP less, but merely because it was an advancement on iron. I use the term advancement here because its lighter and does the same job. If a billet block was available, I'd have gone for that too.

Given the choice, I also wouldn't swap it for an iron build.

If I was planing a truck, sure, I'd no issue with an Iron block. But in a car that's claim to fame is BIG Engine in Light Car, then maximising the philosophy is what I'd try to do. AL block is therefor fit for purpose. True, there are lighter big engines, but for those keen on keeping an FE under the hood, then those are ones choices.

Originally Posted by RodKnock

You're making the Pond and Shelby blocks sound like Pepsi/Coke cans. People use aluminum pistons, rods, cylinder heads, intakes, rocker arms, etc. Until I see at least a good statistical sample of equally built FE engines, built with both cast iron and aluminum blocks, I call BS.
"

Hey RK just a little note for you, they are recycled Pepsi & Coke cans.

The theory does suggest that for the exact same build, Iron block will make more HP. If nothing else, simply because they have a higher density there is less distortion during detonation.
In simple terms, when the fuel goes boom, on a microscopic level there is less flex in the cylinder wall. This flex is potentially amplified the bigger the boom. Hence the claim for larger gains in HP with iron at the higher numbers, and why Barry opts for iron when building for Engine Masters Challenge (EMC). It's fit for purpose, its on an engine stand, so who cares how much it weighs?

This doesn't mean that AL Blocks can't be made to achieve the same HP numbers as iron block, its just more effort in prep and technology, and in the end, in the range we are discussing for a cobra, a few HP is mostly irrelevant. If one wanted more HP one would look at a 385 series BBF.

YES. They use AL for pistons, rods, cranks and other moving parts, because the a reduction in weight is amplified when trying to overcome inertia. Distance of weight from the Centre of Mass (CoM) is relevant in moving parts.
Weight alone is not everything, the distribution of the weight plays a factor.

In simple terms some of the energy that otherwise goes into microscopically flexing an AL Piston head, during the explosion in the cylinder, is outweighed by the gains in overcoming the lighter weight of these parts, particularly as these parts have most of their way a fair distance away from their CoM.

Reducing the weight of moving parts by "x" has a much greater impact that simply removing "x" from a non-moving part. The same logic applies and explains why one tries to minimise unsprung weight in suspensions, or the desire for Magnesium wheels, and so forth. Fit for purpose.

Enjoy...

Originally Posted by blykins

I would think that a $$$$ "aftermarket" block would be an ego-booster. Not solely focused on aluminum.

If the Cup guys can go 200 mph at 9500 with a cast iron block, you guys can drive 5 miles to Starbucks without nosing over and missing your turn......

PS: Brent Its at Starbucks speed where I notice the lighter engine most. It's easier to turn those front wheels while parking baby!

Originally Posted by patrickt

Because it stems from the three ethical principles of Zoroastrianism. Simple, really.

Patrick is in one of those moods again... Making me laugh, and educating me at the same time. Thanks Professor, I had to google that.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by blykins

My guess is that an aluminum body is exactly like an original.

"I" would drop a cast iron block into a CSX or Kirkham, because I like repop stuff.....not resto-mod stuff.

When I first joined this site I thought that getting a Cobra most like an original would be the thing to do. But after being around for a few years I changed my mind. Sure a cast iron block in an alloy CSX would be nice if the CSX has an original style suspension, but apparently alloy CSX cars now come standard with Kirkham billet suspensions, hmm. Now the thought of a Kirkham with billet aluminum parts being lighter than an original CSX has me thinking why wouldn't you want to have a nice light aluminum block FE to make the car that much more lighter? Building the lightest Kirkham possible sounds like a cool thing to do, even if it means that Brent will not be the person building the engine.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Most of the new Cammers I see being built are aluminum blocks. There are like 7 for sale on eBay. Just by Brent and Barry alone I will take them for what their word is and they both agree iron is superior when it comes to FE blocks. I don't have to hear it from anyone else. I take their words as gospel when it comes to FE engines.

New aluminum Cammers??? From what I recall even RodKnock thinks they are not worth the risk of building. I think at least one of those convinced Keith Craft that it was time to retire.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Dimis

The theory...

Ya lost me after "theory."

Yes, it's all hot air, er, I mean "theory", to me.

Everyone here got a chemistry set when they were kids. I was out getting exercise at the local school playground.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Building the lightest Kirkham possible sounds like a cool thing to do, even if it means that Brent will not be the person building the engine.

Yes! My feeling exactly.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

New aluminum Cammers??? From what I recall even RodKnock thinks they are not worth the risk of building. I think at least one of those convinced Keith Craft that it was time to retire.

I'd love to own any Cammer. But, yes, those engines are far more complex than your standard FE.

[fordracing65]

I feel 2017 will be the year of aluminum blocks.

[cobra]

Since 2003 I have mounted a Shelby aluminum engineblock # 299 and drove about 7000 street miles without problems.
Perhaps it is also because who builds the engine. Mine was built by George Anderson (Gessford), who really knows what he is doing and delivers a super quality.
At that time I wanted an aluminum engine because it is lighter and more modern. Casting blocks in Europe also have a somewhat antiquated reputation since no one can imagine a Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. with a gray cast iron block.
Maybe you can get more power from a cast block than from an aluminum, but I still eat a steak rather than a piece of Toffu even if it makes me healthier.

[joyridin']

Why not just take a cast iron block, smooth out the rough edges on the outside, powder coat it aluminum, and voila! You have an aluminum engine that most people won't have a clue as to what it really is!

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Dimis

PS: Brent Its at Starbucks speed where I notice the lighter engine most. It's easier to turn those front wheels while parking baby!

Or you could just install power steering - though that adds weight and parasitic power losses...

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by cobra

Since 2003 I have mounted a Shelby aluminum engineblock # 299 and drove about 7000 street miles without problems.
Perhaps it is also because who builds the engine. Mine was built by George Anderson (Gessford), who really knows what he is doing and delivers a super quality.
At that time I wanted an aluminum engine because it is lighter and more modern. Casting blocks in Europe also have a somewhat antiquated reputation since no one can imagine a Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc. with a gray cast iron block.
Maybe you can get more power from a cast block than from an aluminum, but I still eat a steak rather than a piece of Toffu even if it makes me healthier.

I have Shelby block #931, so #299 is really "vintage." I think Bernica's Shelby # is in the 100's. As said previously, these alloy blocks now have a lot of miles and I haven't heard many if any complaints.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I have Shelby block #931, so #299 is really "vintage." I think Bernica's Shelby # is in the 100's. As said previously, these alloy blocks now have a lot of miles and I haven't heard many if any complaints.

No complaints from the customer. Just the builders.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

Why not just take a cast iron block, smooth out the rough edges on the outside, powder coat it aluminum, and voila! You have an aluminum engine that most people won't have a clue as to what it really is!

What about the extra 150lbs. It's still there. So no.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by fordracing65

What about the extra 150lbs. It's still there. So no.

Buy stickier tires and quit eating so many donuts. Those 2 will more than make up for the 150 lbs.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

Why not just take a cast iron block, smooth out the rough edges on the outside, powder coat it aluminum, and voila! You have an aluminum engine that most people won't have a clue as to what it really is!

So let me get this right.

First, find a good cast iron block, which ain't easy, then smooth out the rough edges on the outside, then powder coast the block in aluminum and then you have what? A silver looking anvil that you have just spent hundreds, maybe thousands, of dollars on before machine work.

Sounds like a great plan. I'm sure someone out there has done it.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by joyridin'

Buy stickier tires and quit eating so many donuts. Those 2 will more than make up for the 150 lbs.

Yeah, but what if I already have sticky tyres and don't eat doughnuts?

By the way, I cycle a little bit, I know plenty of overweight weight weenies - Banker types, with $10 legs and $10,000 bikes.
You're not suggesting they shouldn't be allowed to own and ride light bikes, are you?
The industry would go broke