What's the appeal of an aluminum engine block?

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Pond prices his alloy and cast iron blocks exactly the same. From memory, BBM charges $1,000 more for an alloy block. At the time, my Shelby block was $1,000 extra. But Shelby has probably priced themselves out of my engine build, if I were in the market today.

And as I said earlier, I can compensate for the alleged loss of 15-30 HP in the engine build or even a chassis dyno tune. It's awfully difficult to lose 125 lbs from my Kirkham. And it's not an either/or proposition for me. I want both, the reduced weight and the extra HP from the build and the chassis dyno tune.

Pond block $5695. BBM block $4800. Aluminum.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Pond block $5695. BBM block $4800. Aluminum.

Is the price for a BBM cast iron block $3,500?

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Is the price for a BBM cast iron block $3,500?

I was comparing aluminum. Nobody with a Kirkham is buying iron.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by olddog

Glad you are still talking to me.

Hey Guys, this conversation is like sitting around a friend's basement shooting the breeze and arguing. Back in the days, we used to argue and rag on each other about our cars, sports teams, looks, significant others, etc. There's no malice or anger here.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Nobody with a Kirkham is buying iron.

While most Kirkhams probably have ally blocks, half of the ones I know personally are iron.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

While most Kirkhams probably have ally blocks, half of the ones I know personally are iron.

100% of the Kirkham's that I personally know of have aluminum blocks. I only personally know of my Kirkham, but the % sounds impressive.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by olddog

Now that is pure logic. Hard to argue against that, well maybe a fool would.

Yep Olddog, I'm a fool choosing to entertain RK further, when I know he'll keep playing till he gets the last work, even if it moves off topic.

Watch...

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Oh Dimis,

1. I could re-jet and tune my carb on a chassis dyno and get 15-30 HP. Where would I drop 125lbs with my Kirkham?

2. Yea, reliability is/was a concern. Somewhere in the last 15 or so pages somebody (not me) mentioned "power, reliability and quality." That wasn't me. And the other complaint was the alloy block casting was flexing, expanding, contracting and popping at the seams, whereas the cast iron block was rock steady and never leaks.

3. My rule of threes? I think it was Patrick and others talking in threes. I was only pointing out the anomaly.

Hey RK,

1. I know you did the maths and agree with me, that's why you changed he subject to tuning carbs. What if carbs are already tuned and tuned alike 15-30hp as you stated, for engines that are commonly built between 400-600hp, like in our cobras represents 5% +/- of their power. Correct?
How can you argue that 5% is insignificant, yet argue that 5% of your car's weight is?

2. Nah, reliability was never raised by the builders, unless I missed it. Show me please. It was only raised by third parties who seemingly misinterpreted what the builders were saying. True?

3. You first raised the rule of 3s. Pat just explained the reason for your observations. Yes?


Now, just so i don't get confused buddy, please just answer "yes" or "no" next to each point. Then you can elaborate on your reasoning

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by rodneym

While most Kirkhams probably have ally blocks, half of the ones I know personally are iron.

Probably built before aluminum was available. Lol. Are they faster or slower than aluminum blocks. Ask them.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Now, just so i don't get confused buddy, please just answer "yes" or "no" next to each point. Then you can elaborate on your reasoning

Haaa, asking RodKnock to just answer "yes" or "no" is like asking Ellie not to pass gas after her third plate of turkey. You're just wastin' your breath... and you'd be better off holding it.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Haaa, asking RodKnock to just answer "yes" or "no" is like asking Ellie not to pass gas after her third plate of turkey. You're just wastin' your breath... and you'd be better off holding it.

Yes sir. I'm aware.
Let see who has more self control. RK or Ellie.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Yep Olddog, I'm a fool choosing to entertain RK further, when I know he'll keep playing till he gets the last work, even if it moves off topic.

Watch...




Hey RK,

1. I know you did the maths and agree with me, that's why you changed he subject to tuning carbs. What if carbs are already tuned and tuned alike 15-30hp as you stated, for engines that are commonly built between 400-600hp, like in our cobras represents 5% +/- of their power. Correct?
How can you argue that 5% is insignificant, yet argue that 5% of your car's weight is?

2. Nah, reliability was never raised by the builders, unless I missed it. Show me please. It was only raised by third parties who seemingly misinterpreted what the builders were saying. True?

3. You first raised the rule of 3s. Pat just explained the reason for your observations. Yes?


Now, just so i don't get confused buddy, please just answer "yes" or "no" next to each point. Then you can elaborate on your reasoning

1. Now there's a new hypothetical, with the carb already dyno-tuned and re-jetted. How about a new hypothetical, let's run a Cobra with and without the passenger seat and with a racing seat in place of the standard driver's seat? And also with the driver at his or her current weight and after losing 25 lbs?

As I said, they're (power increase and weight reduction) not mutually exclusive. Also, I never said 125 lbs or 5.5% was significant, what I did say was that if you choose cast iron, then the buyer would have felt that 125 lbs was not "meaningful."

2. Although I didn't just say builders, both builders and consumers have mentioned potential reliability issues with alloy blocks, whether it's a casting flaw or not. And cast iron blocks have casting flaws too, didn't I hear there were issues with the blocks coming out of South Korea or something? The expansion, contraction, etc. allegedly causes reliability issues that none of us (roughly a dozen on this thread) with alloy blocks have actually experienced.

Reliability issues from builders:

Originally Posted by Barry_R

Every single fastener needs to be retightened after they run - the aluminum growth seems to loosen them all up. They leak - probably for the same reason. I suspect that the OEMs use better alloy and a much more sophisticated process for fasteners, seals and gaskets to avoid these problems.

Originally Posted by blykins

What happens if a sleeve drops (had that happen once) and you don't find out until you get ready to pull it off the dyno and pull the valve covers to do an inspection?

3. As I said, I only pointed out the anomaly of folks mentioned things in 3's, like Patrick, I was not one that spoke in 3's.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Haaa, asking RodKnock to just answer "yes" or "no" is like asking Ellie not to pass gas after her third plate of turkey. You're just wastin' your breath... and you'd be better off holding it.

Answer "yes" or "no"? What is this? A deposition? It all depends on what your definition of "is" is?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Answer "yes" or "no"? What is this? A deposition? It all depends on what your definition of "is" is?

No. In a deposition we let you talk as long and as winding as you'd care to go. It's when you're on the stand that we try and pin you down to yes or no.

[Dimis]

...and Ellie wins!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

No. In a deposition we let you talk as long and as winding as you'd care to go. It's when you're on the stand that we try and pin you down to yes or no.

I was taught there were 4 answers no matter what: yes, no, I don't know and I don't remember, whether a deposition or on the stand. And never ever ramble on.

And the last time I was involved in a legal matter, the lawyer became frustrated, threw his hands up in the air, and harshly told me that I was excused. And I'm sure you guys (and gals) would be very surprised by that fact, but it actually happened.

[jhv48]

Evan would be proud of this thread.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

And the last time I was involved in a legal matter, the lawyer became frustrated, threw his hands up in the air, and harshly told me that I was excused. And I'm sure you guys (and gals) would be very surprised by that fact, but it actually happened.

Doesn't surprise me in the least.

[DanEC]

[quote=RodKnock;1409800]I was taught there were 4 answers no matter what: yes, no, I don't know and I don't remember, whether a deposition or on the stand. And never ever ramble on. /QUOTE]

That's what your lawyer will tell you. The opposing lawyer hopes your a motor mouth.

Originally Posted by jhv48

Evan would be proud of this thread.

No kidding.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Probably built before aluminum was available. Lol. Are they faster or slower than aluminum blocks. Ask them.

They were built within the last 5 years. From my experience , the hot rodders use ally and accurate builds use iron.

[jhv48]

All right, I'll bite.
Who's Ellie?