What's the appeal of an aluminum engine block?

[patrickt]

He'll notice. Remember, he's discriminating....

[lippy]

Originally Posted by blykins

Power to weight ratio....

2400 lbs vs 600 hp - 4 lbs / hp

2300 lbs vs 600 hp - 3.83 lbs / hp.

You'd never know the difference.

A 4% improvement isn't nothing.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by blykins

Last "rumor" I heard was that Shelby was ditching their US foundry and went off-shore.

To my knowledge, nobody has had Shelby blocks, unless they had a stock pile saved up.

Call the Shelby Engine Co., pose as a customer and ask about lead times

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by lippy

A 4% improvement isn't nothing.

I agree with lippy.

There's all types of folk (from serious to hobbyists) who would kill for that weight savings.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Just do what I did. Buy a high-quality, original 428 iron block with the extra webbing and then just tell everyone it's a 427. That's worked for me for over a decade now.

Isn't "high quality" and "original 428 iron block" an oxymoron? And why would anyone want a faux FE in their BB Cobra?

[blykins]

Can I disguise my voice?

EDITED....

I was assuming Lippy was talking in my Hillbilly vernacular....which would mean that 4% isn't *anything*.

Power to weight ratios are laughable at the level of a high horsepower Cobra. With 600 hp, who here can tell if they are carrying a passenger at WOT?

Where the difference may lie is the weight distribution. I had both a stroked 351W and a 428 FE in my Cobra and, IMO, the difference wasn't noticeable. However, to be fair, I didn't get much seat time before I got bored and sold it....

If the weight difference was out there hanging off the oil cooler, I could see some value in lightening the load. However, with the engine's weight so far behind the front axle centerline, I just can't see the advantage unless you were on a road course. And even then, to really find the ragged edge of each setup, you'd probably need more than a conventional wet sump setup....

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by lippy

A 4% improvement isn't nothing.

And if you use 125 lbs, it's over a 5% difference.

I know I could feel a 5% power difference, maybe not as much with 4%. I am discriminating.

And think about the increase gas mileage with a lighter car. More nimble in those freeway off and on ramps too!

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by blykins

Can I disguise my voice?

Just place a hanky over the phone, tell them your name is "Patrick T" and that you've come to your senses.

[Mark IV]

And then they try to put the power down on some BFG TAs....................

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

There's all types of folk (from serious to hobbyists) who would kill for that weight savings.

And if weight were truly unimportant, then we would all be building ERA's at 2,500-2,600 lbs.

[scottj]

Originally Posted by blykins

Can I disguise my voice?

EDITED....

I was assuming Lippy was talking in my Hillbilly vernacular....which would mean that 4% isn't *anything*.

Power to weight ratios are laughable at the level of a high horsepower Cobra. With 600 hp, who here can tell if they are carrying a passenger at WOT?

Where the difference may lie is the weight distribution. I had both a stroked 351W and a 428 FE in my Cobra and, IMO, the difference wasn't noticeable. However, to be fair, I didn't get much seat time before I got bored and sold it....

If the weight difference was out there hanging off the oil cooler, I could see some value in lightening the load. However, with the engine's weight so far behind the front axle centerline, I just can't see the advantage unless you were on a road course. And even then, to really find the ragged edge of each setup, you'd probably need more than a conventional wet sump setup....

Absolutely I can tell when I'm carrying a passenger, same as I can tell if I have a 1/4 or a full fuel cell. It's not the weight I feel, but the increased traction from the higher rear percentage. To be clear, I'm talking about on the street with limited traction. I've never had a problem with forward bite on road courses and prefer less rear percentage than I run on the street.

[blykins]

Scott, your ability and purpose for the car is above the norm....not many guys here are accustomed to driving late models.

My father has a 2010 Z06 that's making about 680 hp at the flywheel. Things happen so quickly out on the street with heavy throttle application that a passenger isn't even part of the equation.

[RodKnock]

We're arguing here about who can feel what. Too me, that's stupid. How can you know what others can feel? Or tell them what they can feel or not?

Consumers who buy alloy blocks want the light weight, and/or resale value/reduced DOM (days on the market) associated with buying a aluminum block. "Bling" doesn't finish at the top of the list in this informal poll.

And every new FE block, cast iron or alloy, is N/A anyway.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by blykins

Power to weight ratio....

2400 lbs vs 600 hp - 4 lbs / hp

2300 lbs vs 600 hp - 3.83 lbs / hp.

You'd never know the difference.

You may be right, but that still sounds like a free 25hp to me... plus what I gain in turning, stopping and accelerating.

Why would you turn your nose up to that when building your ultimate street beast?

[Three Peaks]

Bench racing and bragging about that extra 4-5% of additional power to weight ratio seems to be popular on this and a couple other forums I've frequented, but how many guys really need or could even tell the difference?
What, you could go from light to light .1 of a second faster? Your autocross times are better? Doubtful. Would your top end be more impressive? I doubt anyone here beyond a very select few would ever know the difference, or would be foolish to try to find the difference on the street. Track racing would be a complete different animal and not what is under discussion here, IMHO.

Admit it for what is is, ego and bragging rights and really nothing else. And the fact it raises the cars value only means there are lots of guys out there who need to boost their ego and bragging rights so they can inflate the conversation when they are bench racing.
I'm extremely happy with my stroked 351W (393) and 99% of people think it sounds just great and can't tell it from a 427 to look at it. No one looking at the car from the street or the outside will be able to tell if it has a 427 , 428, 302, or an LS for that matter. And to look under the hood only means a bit of bragging is going on.... I know, I've been there... I like to open my hood too once in awhile.....

Bob

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

Bench racing and bragging about that extra 4-5% of additional power to weight ratio seems to be popular on this and a couple other forums I've frequented, but how many guys really need or could even tell the difference?
What, you could go from light to light .1 of a second faster? Your autocross times are better? Doubtful. Would your top end be more impressive? I doubt anyone here beyond a very select few would ever know the difference, or would be foolish to try to find the difference on the street. Track racing would be a complete different animal and not what is under discussion here, IMHO.

Admit it for what is is, ego and bragging rights and really nothing else. And the fact it raises the cars value only means there are lots of guys out there who need to boost their ego and bragging rights so they can inflate the conversation when they are bench racing.
I'm extremely happy with my stroked 351W (393) and 99% of people think it sounds just great and can't tell it from a 427 to look at it. No one looking at the car from the street or the outside will be able to tell if it has a 427 , 428, 302, or an LS for that matter. And to look under the hood only means a bit of bragging is going on.... I know, I've been there... I like to open my hood too once in awhile.....

Bob

Well I for one think Bob's on to something. Even if it's only part of it.

I see your 351W and raise you an aluminium 427s/oiler.

Yep. Ego!
Else that wouldn't flipping comment wouldn't elicit the reactions I suspect it might.

Ps. Comment not directed at bob.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Three Peaks

Admit it for what is is, ego and bragging rights and really nothing else. And the fact it raises the cars value only means there are lots of guys out there who need to boost their ego and bragging rights so they can inflate the conversation when they are bench racing.
Bob

I'll admit it's my ego that led me to buy and install an alloy FE block, if you admit that you're just envious you don't have an FE in your Cobra.

As I said previously, for an extra $1,000-$1,500 in 2008, I chose aluminum FE because 125 lbs was important to me. And Kirkham went through a lot of trouble to build a lightweight aluminum Cobra, with their billet aluminum suspension and differential, to drop a "boat anchor" in there. And Shelby's American-made pure Alcoa aluminum blocks weren't exhibiting any casting issues to the best of my knowledge.

And most "car people" understand the difference between a small block and a big block.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

And most "car people" understand the difference between a small block and a big block.

Not just car people. Should I tell the story again of when the blind and deaf car fans came to the car show and raved over my ERA and its big block?

[blykins]

I would think that a $$$$ "aftermarket" block would be an ego-booster. Not solely focused on aluminum.

If the Cup guys can go 200 mph at 9500 with a cast iron block, you guys can drive 5 miles to Starbucks without nosing over and missing your turn......

[scottj]

Originally Posted by blykins

Scott, your ability and purpose for the car is above the norm....not many guys here are accustomed to driving late models.

My father has a 2010 Z06 that's making about 680 hp at the flywheel. Things happen so quickly out on the street with heavy throttle application that a passenger isn't even part of the equation.

I couln't agree more about passengers. Only 2 people have been with me on a full throttle run. The first was my 70 year old dad and we ran it up to about 160... he wasn't fazed. The other was a buddy with whom I race sprint cars. 2 days later my buddy called and strongly urged selling the car. When a 410 sprint car driver (who are known to be a little "touched") is convinced I'm going to die, maybe the whole thing is an exercise in stupidity. But.. you asked for imput from chassis guys. While I don't claim to be one, I did design all the suspension pick up points and arm lengths in Solidworks and run motion analysis on the system. The chassis model was also run on Newman/Haas' simulation software when they designed the dampers and spec'ed the spring rates. I've also spent contless hours with cars on scales (Note: Patrick disagrees with my procedure) tweeking setups and, as you stated, raced dirt late models (and sprint cars). So, I could settle for "shade-tree" chassis guy. The point being, all I ever read is how 600 hp is useless... can't hook up... dangerous...etc. I'm saying that I can short shift into 2nd gear, go full throttle with about 700 hp on street tires (335 PS2's) and not get wheelspin. Rear percentage is a big, big part of that.